Baren Digest                Monday, 9 June 2003        Volume 23 : Number 2254


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From: John and Jan Telfer <jtelfer#iinet.net.au>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 03 00:03:57 +0800
Subject: [Baren 21741] Re: Commercial Printing Inks 

Philip,


>Inks, well oil based inks at any rate,...has anyone
>tried commercial printing inks? 


Yes, Philip I use locally made Coates Australia Commercial printing inks 
and can get a car bootload of colours that aren't serialised....sets of 
or listed chronologically on the Pantone colour chart in other words odd 
colours ... a boot load last time cost me $10Aust.  I am still working my 
way through it! To get the tone I need I sometimes add tube Graphic 
Chemical inks or what I think is the Japanese Equivalent, Sakura which I 
have a little left in basic colours.  

They all work well, on their own or mixed, roll up extremely well without 
having to add any plate oils or extender with them.  A couple of colours 
that I inherited from a printer have already got some transparency in 
them and I have a black, pink/red and a blue already mixed with a 
transparency extender. 

For woodblock printing I find that the finer you roll the ink, the better 
the coverage, so when you roll up the ink on the glass or perspex rolling 
board it shouldn't sound like you are driving through a patch of mud that 
is sticking to the tyres, but more like a fine zipper. If it sounds like 
mud, scrape some of the ink off the rolling board and spread the ink 
further to thin it out before rolling it onto your carved block.  

You can roll it over the block several times with the thinner ink 
travelling in different directions to get a good coverage so that the 
block coverage looks like shiney glass rather than put too much on the 
first time and it looks like tacky raindrops.

Hope you understand my picture imagery.... I am used to teaching kids!!

Cheers,
Jan





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From: Jsf73#aol.com
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 11:58:47 EDT
Subject: [Baren 21742] Re: about the summit...ride from airport saturday 



Hi Aimee (and all the summiteers),

I would be happy to pick you up from the airport. I am not 100% sure what 
time I will arrive yet, as I am driving in so it is hard to be totally accurate. 
I will endeavour to be there as early as possible though. 

I will post to the entire list again to see if anyone else is arriving mid 
afternoon (2:00p.m.) and would like a ride too. 

Just send me your flight information and such so I will know where to look 
for you. I will try to have a sign made up so people can identify me when I get 
to the airport.

John Furr



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From: John and Jan Telfer <jtelfer#iinet.net.au>
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 03 00:24:35 +0800
Subject: [Baren 21743] Re: Barren Summit 

Baren Summit,

To all those travelling to the Summit I wish you a safe journey and wish 
I could be joining you.  Three years in a row to America from Perth in 
Western Australia is a bit "much" but I will be there in spirit and will 
be looking forward to seeing some pictures.

Please make a date for the next one so that I can book my plane ticket in 
advance.

Green with envy on the other side of the world!

Jan

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From: "marilynn smih" <marilynnsmih#hotmail.com>
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 09:28:59 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21744] Re: Baren Digest V23 #2253 

Being fairly new to this wood carving stuff I am wondering about the 2 trees 
we have removed from our yard.  One is holly the other is alder.  there are 
possibilities of some nice end grain pieces.  I remember that some of you 
carve end grain and for certain reasons like it.  Is there a special way i 
should treat these pieces of wood and what are the ins and outs of carving 
end grain slabs???  Are they good for specific types of designs or just 
different to carve?
Still thinking on how to pack everything for this summit adventure, lots of 
stuff to bring and if I have room maybe i will pack in a slab of this end 
grain.
Marilynn Smith


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From: GraphChem#aol.com
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:07:09 EDT
Subject: [Baren 21745] Re: inks 


I'm coming into the conversation late, and haven't read all of the comments, 
but the single most important thing to remember about commercial inks vs. 
those formulated for printmaking is the archival quality. Commercial inks may be 
"commercial permanent" which means that they are good for 120 days in full 
light conditions. Some inks, and the emphasis is on "some" are more permanent - 
but you have to be careful. Graphic, Gamblin and Charbonnel are all using 
permanent materials (in the full dictionary definition of permanent).

Dean Clark




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From: GraphChem#aol.com
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 14:09:04 EDT
Subject: [Baren 21746] Re: inky stuff 



Sarah -
I think you are looking for the Graphic Chemical Gelled Varnish.

Dean Clark


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From: pulpfic#sunshinecable.com
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 2003 14:10:20 -0700
Subject: [Baren 21747] inks 

Hi Philip and others,

In reply to your question about commercial printing inks, I'd like to remind
you of posters you may occasionally see in store windows, with that bluish
look to them after they've been there for a relatively short while.

Even if commercial printing inks (letterpress or offset - all the same
stuff) say they are Permanent, what that means is permanent For the Expected
Use, which is usually not all that long-lived - think of newsletters you
receive in the mail, flyers, and those travel posters and such.

The red and the yellow pigments are the most fugitive, which is why the
posters will have blue overall tones to them, although the blues fade as
well. Black is likely to be more stable, especially if it's a carbon-based
pigment. Most browns and greens will be made up of various pigments, which
include the fugitive reds and yellows, and will change in colour as the
components fade.

I use these inks to print type matter such as in books, as books spend much
time closed (away from light), but I would not trust them for works of art
which will be displayed in any significant amount of light.

Take care,
        Randi 
- -- 
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
                                     Ms Randi DeLisle
    papermaker, bookbinder, publisher, printmaker & gourd artist
                         pulp fictions & pulp fictions press
        Grand Forks BC  Canada    pulpfic#sunshinecable.com
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


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From: Chromoxylo#aol.com
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 2003 23:35:24 EDT
Subject: [Baren 21748] Re: inks 

Any permanence in printing inks, oil paints or watercolors is determined by 
the pigment used rather than the vehicle (or additives) which make the pigment 
work in whatever medium. Any pigment (except black) will eventually fade away 
to nothing if exposed to bright light for a long enough time. Some pigments 
are prone to fading and are called fugitive - most pigments are sold with a 1 
thru 4 grading system, 1 being best. The pigments are graded accordingly 
industry wide and are quite consistant. For artwork that is kept indoors away from 
direct sunlight, the fading will be slower but still happens over a period of 
time. Yoshida Hiroshi never considered a print quite done until it had time to 
fade to soften the color. Almost every commercial ink company strives to use 
the best materials in their inks (the formulas are closely guarded trade 
secrets) but commercial inks are formulated for different purposes, ie. letterpress, 
highspeed offset, stone lithography, etching, etc... Buy inks that are 
appropriate to what kind of printing you are doing or you will have problems. Also, 
pigment suspended in water is generally called paint (watercolor) which is 
traditionally used for moku hanga and I heartily second whomever suggested using 
sumi for blacks. You won't get the intense black that you would from an oil 
based inks (without repeated printings) but the softness of color and variety of 
grays can be quite beautiful on its own.

Paul Ritscher

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From: FurryPressII#aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2003 05:50:49 EDT
Subject: [Baren 21749] Re: inks 


i second paul remarks.       but i like black blacks.

In thinking how long our prints will last (besides being tossed by 
unappricated wifes, husbands or kids) we have left out of the descusion what kind of 
paper we are printing on.

Openning up another can of worms.

How archival is the paper?  What is the ph. level?   Is there any wood pulp 
in the paper and if so how much?    Some Japanese paper has wood pulp in it as 
well.

duke of oil (oil based ink that is)
John Center



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End of Baren Digest V23 #2254
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