Baren Digest                Friday, 4 July 2003        Volume 24 : Number 2290


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From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 08:06:59 -0500
Subject: [Baren 22092] Re: Exchange #18 (small exchange) update... 


Thanks, John, but as you already know, Dan Dew has already taken this 
on...  You can volunteer to handle the overflow from 18(a), though...  :-)

- -- Mike

At 06:23 PM 7/2/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>if we get any more folks in the small print exchange i would be willing to 
>organize a second small print exchange    first 30 if reg exchange  and 
>the over flow in a second one
>
>John "furrypressii" center



------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:16:02 -0500
Subject: [Baren 22093] Re: Hmm, I thought there was no rancor.... 

At 07:17 AM 7/3/2003 -0400, you wrote:

>However Sharen, you have spoken. I have enjoyed reading the forum and 
>meeting it's members. I haven't had the opportunity to participate in an 
>exchange yet, but I would have valued all the prints equally, oily or 
>hanga. I am sure that when I get my prints from exchange 17 I will love 
>them all. Goodbye Sharen, I dont need such animosity, and I will no longer 
>post to the forum. If you so wish just say the word and I wont participate 
>in exchanges either.


OK, you guys!!!  COOL IT !!!  Each of us needs to be able to share our 
ideas about printmaking (and the direction of this  forum) without becoming 
the recipient of (too much) rancor or animosity -- we're all interested in 
basically the same stuff, but we're all different and that's what makes 
these ongoing discussions so great and so interesting -- there is no need 
for anybody to drop out of anything (don't give your critic TOO much power 
over you)...  Just speak your own mind and listen courteously when others 
speak theirs -- that's the way we teach and that's the way we learn.  Don't 
you think?

And let's make sure we leave off-list correspondence OFF-LIST, OK?

- -- Mike


Mike Lyon
mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
http://www.mlyon.com  

------------------------------

From: Myron Turner <mturner#Ms.UManitoba.CA>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:54:06 -0500
Subject: [Baren 22094] Re: a woodblock glossary 
lowed

Hi Mary,

Here's an entry for the oil-based glossary.  As you see we now have to 
define "inking slab" and  "durometer".

brayer (English)
A device for rolling ink onto the woodblock; it consists of a cylinder--the 
roller--made of rubber, glycerin, or a composition material which is set 
into a handle and which comes in various hardnesses measured in units of 
"durometer"; for relief printing the roller is usually between 15 and 60 
durometer, 15 being soft and 60 hard.  The ink is taken up onto the brayer 
from an even film of ink spread onto an inking slab usually with the  the 
brayer itself.

Myron

At 07:51 AM 03/07/2003, you wrote:

>Greetings all,
>
>Why don't we work collectively on a glossary to be added to the 
>encyclopedia. I checked the site out and under 'Dictionary' we have a good 
>selection of the Japanese terms (some even with audio files) contributed 
>by David Bull. This leaves the field wide open for all the other languages 
>of the world.
>
>For the English speakers there are all those specialized uses for common 
>terms like 'ink knife' that puzzle everyone at first and for all of you 
>who revel in more than one language how do you say woodblock in 
>Portuguese, German, Spanish or....
>
>I would be happy to work on compiling and editing if you would help me by 
>suggesting terms and or definitions, approving and criticizing as we go.
>
>I nominate for our first term....
>
>wood (English), bois (Francais)
>the part of a tree between the center and the bark--in woodblock printing, 
>used to make the printing block
>
>Let the games begin!!
>
>Mary Krieger
>Winnipeg MB Canada
>
>
>
>
>
>




------------------------------

From: FurryPressII#aol.com
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 12:02:34 EDT
Subject: [Baren 22095] Re: Exchange #18 (small exchange) update... 



sorry for more than one post    but i would be glad to do the work for a 
"overflow  exchange"
seems to be enough interest already for two.

john "furrypress" center


------------------------------

From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 09:19:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 22096] to focus or to unfocus 



Hi all,
Interesting discussion about oil and water....this is what the
baren is about, discussion about printmaking, specifically
woodblock.

I like the idea about expanding the encyclopedia, if we keep it
to woodblock. The problem with oil (of which I am a long time
practitioner) is that it is so very vast.....we could write
thousands of pages pretty easily on all the techniques. Seems if
we keep it to woodblock we can narrow it and put all out
experience about ink and paper down for the future strugglers to
use.

I don't know if it will help me carve better, I still struggle
with it. I got a great lesson from Michael from Vienna at the
summit. Maybe it is the same lesson I have seen over and over and
it is finally sinking in. I do want to try some cherry wood.
Maria gave me a small sample to lure me in...what a wicked woman
she is! So now I will have to order some.

I am just now getting back to normal, whatever that is. We older
(hated to say that) people have a bit  more trouble
traveling....I am still asking my body to keep the time
commitments of 20 years ago and it rebels and says, maybe we need
sleep, NOW. If anyone owes the mall money from the summit, send
it on in. I am just getting to doing the bookeeping now that I
have dealt with the home front a bit.

So Mary, if you are really volunteering to edit I can send a few
things your way. I will work on making them clear to non
printmakers. I remember when I was learning, back in the dark
ages, and I would read stuff and it was like a foreign language.
It was written for people who knew things, I think we should
write for people who know nothing about doing this. Many will
bless us for doing it this way.

OK Oily people, now is the chance to get your brains down on
paper....I know this can take awhile and there is really no rush.
But be thinking about what you would have liked to have known at
the beginning. Think how much easier your life would have been if
you did not have to invent the wheel for yourself! A real
challenge to all.

I am so far behind that it is just a joke...not funny to the
coodinators and I am trying to make all the deadlines....I just
gave a talk about printmaking and eveyone was very interested in
the exchanges. It makes all other artists very jealous I am sure!
Best to all,
Barbara


------------------------------

From: Mike Lyon <mikelyon#mlyon.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 11:24:40 -0500
Subject: [Baren 22097] Encyclopedia... 

 Hi, Myron and Mary...

During the Summit we had eight out of ten Baren Council members present and 
we were able to meet face to face for a LONG breakfast (almost turned into 
lunch).  We decided a bunch of stuff including to "revive" the Baren 
Encyclopedia project...  The task of editing, updating, and maintaining the 
Encyclopedia has fallen to me because BarenForum has grown so much so fast 
and other members, especially Dave Bull (the creator and chief author of 
the Encyclopedia), have become way too busy to look after everything by 
themselves.  I'm sure I'm going to LOVE  assistance with the Encyclopedia 
project, but I'm NOT ready to receive new entries quite yet (although I 
appreciate Myron's entry very much)...  When I am ready, and it'll be some 
little time, I'll post instructions on the forum.  I plan to provide a new 
submission form so that authors and entries can be somewhat automated and 
the Encyclopedia can come alive and begin to grow again...  But that's 
going to take some web-restructuring and I've got a pretty full plate right 
now, too.

Thank you for your patience (at least I am hoping for your 
patience  :-)  and for preparing your submissions -- I'll let everyone know 
when the Encyclopedia is ready for your input !!!    In the meantime, 
everyone's suggestions are most welcome!

- -- Mike

At 10:54 AM 7/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>Hi Mary,
>
>Here's an entry for the oil-based glossary.  As you see we now have to 
>define "inking slab" and  "durometer".
>
>brayer (English)
>A device for rolling ink onto the woodblock; it consists of a 
>cylinder--the roller--made of rubber, glycerin, or a composition material 
>which is set into a handle and which comes in various hardnesses measured 
>in units of "durometer"; for relief printing the roller is usually between 
>15 and 60 durometer, 15 being soft and 60 hard.  The ink is taken up onto 
>the brayer from an even film of ink spread onto an inking slab usually 
>with the  the brayer itself.
>
>Myron
>
>At 07:51 AM 03/07/2003, you wrote:

>>Greetings all,
>>
>>Why don't we work collectively on a glossary to be added to the 
>>encyclopedia. I checked the site out and under 'Dictionary' we have a 
>>good selection of the Japanese terms (some even with audio files) 
>>contributed by David Bull. This leaves the field wide open for all the 
>>other languages of the world.
>>
>>For the English speakers there are all those specialized uses for common 
>>terms like 'ink knife' that puzzle everyone at first and for all of you 
>>who revel in more than one language how do you say woodblock in 
>>Portuguese, German, Spanish or....
>>
>>I would be happy to work on compiling and editing if you would help me by 
>>suggesting terms and or definitions, approving and criticizing as we go.
>>
>>I nominate for our first term....
>>
>>wood (English), bois (Francais)
>>the part of a tree between the center and the bark--in woodblock 
>>printing, used to make the printing block
>>
>>Let the games begin!!
>>
>>Mary Krieger
>>Winnipeg MB Canada

>
>Mike Lyon
>mailto:mikelyon#mlyon.com
>http://www.mlyon.com  



------------------------------

From: "David Stones" <stones#mb.i-chubu.ne.jp>
Date: Fri, 4 Jul 2003 02:18:52 +0900
Subject: [Baren 22098] Re: Flying brushes and rollers? 
Dear All,

The other Dave here (Dave S, with the grey beard) in Japan - I've come out
of my lurker box just to add a comment or two on this "oil v water" thing -
hopefully to prevent members flinging ink brushes or rollers by e-mail...

Over 21,000 posts ago, [Baren] was loosely specified (by phone) and Dave B
sent me some of the mails by post... I, for one, was really pleased to
hear that (Japanese) traditional woodblock printing was to be the prime
subject of his site and - now don't throw your ink rollers yet - still think
[Baren] should retain the water-based method in its very separate area...
along with the dictionary etc., etc. There's nothing at all wrong with
building a complimentary "oil" section though, so put down that ink knife.

Why? If you trace back our adopted craft (Dave B's and to a lessor
extent mine) it was developed when there were NO rollers, oil-based
inks, presses etc. This is why I took an interest - heretic to my trade as
I was - a letterpress printer yes... but a user lead type, brass rule, oily
inks, chemicals (one called dragon's blood). Now, I'm also a computer-
design nut who can be found at a desk once a week... Anyway, in mokuhanga
I found two things... wood-created "plates" (always wanted to be a
carpenter, like Grandfather) and printing (6-yr. apprenticeship). Oil
and presses were unnecessary and not much space was needed (still have
just four mats - about 7.5 sq. meters). Simplicity and natural materials...

I'd very much appreciate it then, if things could be left as they are but
complimented by an "oil" section - please do not mix them. Dave B's
original information is, in itself, a mine of traditional-method information
on our slowly disappearing, originally no-oil, craft. I would kindly suggest
that this be respected... Now, I've said my piece (peace) and will go back
to my workshop... Computer desk... Pressroom...

With respect to all [Baren] printers out there,

Dave S





------------------------------

From: "marilynn smih" <marilynnsmih#hotmail.com>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 10:23:03 -0700
Subject: [Baren 22099] Re: Baren Digest V24 #2289 

YIKES.  What is happening to our lovely list?  John Furr please, I am your 
personal friend.  Mike Lyon, please, I loved your warm hospitality.  
Everyone, get to printing and posting about art and stop wrangling.  Agree 
to disagree and be adults and don't run off in a huff to a corner, resolve 
it and keep friendships alive.  This list has given me so much.  I have 
learned to carve on wood, I have learned about Hanga and most of all I got 
to meet some wonderful people because a special person in Kansas City opened 
his studio to us and gave us a week of learning and wonderful bonding.
I won't be posting either for awhile, I want to get to work, I have several 
prints to finish.  And I too am upset by thoughtless and angry comments.
Marilynn

------------------------------

From: John and Michelle Morrell <jmmorrell#gci.net>
Date: Thu, 03 Jul 2003 09:27:55 -0800
Subject: [Baren 22100] Exchange #18 size - again 

Mike--

I seem to have a terrible time communicating, so I'm making another run at
this.  Yes, I have read the Exchange #18 specs; here they are copied below
for reference:

Medium: woodblock print (hand rubbed or pulled on a press, B&W or colour,
any pigments, any paper)
Theme: open
Paper: chu-ban about 10 x 7 1/2 inches (25.4 x 19 cm). Note: in previous
exchanges the coordinators have had many problems with prints that don't fit
the cases, so this time we must emphasize - prints that do not meet the
published specification will be rejected from the exchange and returned to
the maker. No exceptions.
IMAGE SIZE: 8 square inches (50 square cm) in any proportion which will fit
the paper (+/- 5%).
For example:
8" x 1", 6" x 1 1/3", 4" x 2", 2.8" x 2.8", etc
20 x 2.5 cm, 17 x 3 cm, 7.2 x 7.2 cm, etc.
Paper type: no restriction
***

Please note that the paper size is chu-ban, and any image that would fit the
paper plus or minus 5% would be considerably larger than 8 square inches,
but I assume you mean "any image that will conform to the image size of 8
square inches," give or take 5%.  Maybe I shouldn't assume that much.

So, maybe can I assume that using a smaller block and an image smaller than
8 square inches is also okay so long as it is printed or pasted on chu-ban
size paper?   Or,  as I might assume above, for some reason the upper limit
is also the lower limit in image area size?  (Miniature shows generally set
upper limits, not lower limits, and we have some stamp makers in the group.)

Sorry to beat this to death!

Michelle Morrell
jmmorrell#gci.net



------------------------------

From: "Charles Mcneely" <chasmac#artistsnetwork.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 13:32:27 -0400
Subject: [Baren 22101] hanga regatration question 

A newbe question about hanga regatration! Sence the reg marks are cut into
the woodblock, how do you reg a small image on a large sheet as in exchage
18, do you use a large block and cut all of the excess out or use a smaller
block that is closer to the size of the image ( so as not to waste
hardwood) and then use a reg system to print?? 

Charlie

------------------------------

From: "Rudolf Stalder" <stalderp#mindspring.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Aug 2003 01:39:10 -0700
Subject: [Baren 22102] encyclopedia 

Hi all,

to devote more attention to the "encyclopedia" appears to me a good idea,
worthwhile further discussion.

My proposal would be to establish a list of topics, similar to the index of
a book. People could then sign to the topics of their interests, preferences
and/or expertise, thus e.g. forming a group of Bareners dealing with
"registration", "paper","wood" etc.

The task of each group would be to establish a text describing the
procedures including illustrations. These texts could then be discussed at
Barens, revised, improved etc.
Personal opinions and web-references could be added.

I would start this project independent of the actual encyclopedia, to avoid
conflicts of structure eventually merging the two in a later state.
To establish a text for a single topic should take about one year.

No doubt, a mayor undertaken !

best wishes

Rudolf

http://www.rst-art.com






------------------------------

From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:47:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 22103] Re: hanga regatration question 


Charlie, 

The easiest way to do this is to make a registration board, an L
shapped board that would have the Kento marks on it and just
slide the block in and print. Many artists use one. With hanga
the trickiest thing about it would be to be sure the block stayed
into the registration block tightly. Matt Brown solved this by
screwing a small wooden finger to the place where the top of the
small block would fit into the registration board, then you could
push this down and hold the block securely so it would not move.
I am just careful and never have much of a problem with it
moving, but I can see it could move so be especially careful if
you are registering from the key block to the next block.

My registration board isn't even wood, it is a piece of mat board
with foam core for the L and the kento is made of matboard and
glued down with double stick tape so I can move it. I am sure the
two Dave's in Japan are shuddering as I write this, but it does
work and we all make do...someday I am going to make one out of
wood. Be sure the hight of your L is not higher than your block
and not very much lower or it will be hard to register the work.
Others may have different ideas on how to do this. Good luck...
Best to all,
Barbara
 
>Charles Mcneely <chasmac#artistsnetwork.com> wrote:
>A newbe question about hanga regatration! Sence the reg marks are cut into
>the woodblock, how do you reg a small image on a large sheet as in exchage
>18, do you use a large block and cut all of the excess out or use a smaller
>block that is closer to the size of the image ( so as not to waste
>hardwood) and then use a reg system to print?? 

Charlie


------------------------------

From: Barbara Mason <barbaramason45#yahoo.com>
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 2003 11:51:34 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 22104] tip of the day 


Hi all,
Sorry to post again in one day, I just got a flashing tip of the day from Yahoo....
"BE SURE THE RECIPIENT OF THIS MAIL REALLY WANTS TO READ IT"
I thought that was quite funny as I never ask myself that question...maybe I should.
Best to all again,
Barbara


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End of Baren Digest V24 #2290
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