Today's postings

  1. [Baren 23780] Re: Six Water based block ink questions, Greetings and Happy New Year! (Mike Lyon)
  2. [Baren 23781] Re: Six Water based block ink questions, Greetings and Happy Ne... (Aqua4tis #
  3. [Baren 23782] Waterbased pigments (Sharri LaPierre)
  4. [Baren 23783] Paper and mall stuff (Barbara Mason)
  5. [Baren 23784] calendars (Aqua4tis #
  6. [Baren 23785] Re: question for murilo ("MPereira")
  7. [Baren 23786] Re: question for murilo ("MPereira")
  8. [Baren 23787] Re: calendars (Barbara Mason)
  9. [Baren 23788] Re: Re-surfacing boxwood or end grain Maple... (Troy Harris)
  10. [Baren 23789] Re: Re-surfacing boxwood or end grain Maple... ("Robert Canaga")
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Message 1
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Fri, 02 Jan 2004 09:42:00 -0600
Subject: [Baren 23780] Re: Six Water based block ink questions, Greetings and Happy New Year!
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At 10:46 PM 1/1/2004 -0800, Shasta Jones wrote:
>My questions are, the ink I have seems very thick and stiff for water
>based (compared to my experience I had with watercolor painting in my
>college days). Do most water based printmakers mix their inks with water
>prior to printing an edition? Or are water-based inks, such as the Faust
>brand, applied to the block right out of the can?

Products marketed as "water based relief printing ink" (or similar)
generally are water-soluble (to some degree, at least) substitutes for
traditional western oil-based inks. They are intended to be rolled up and
onto the surface of the block as you would an oil based ink. I have little
experience with this sort of ink, but others on the forum can help you more
if this is the way you intend to print.

For Japanese technique printing, the color is usually brushed all over the
area of the block to be printed (not just on the surface) and is generally
more similar to the water colors you are familiar with from your college
days than to 'printing ink'. Dry pigment mixed into a bit of water and
rice paste is usually all that's necessary. Adding gum will make the color
more water-soluble (colors tend more to run or feather, especially when/if
prints are re-wet). Adding glue (hide glue as opposed to paste made from
rice starch or flour) will make printed areas less absorbent and therefore
less receptive to subsequent over-printing. Many dry pigments don't
readily disperse in water. Those can generally first be dispersed in
alcohol, and then the alcohol+pigment mixture will disperse in
water. Daniel Smith, Art Guerra, Akua and others (see the BarenForum Other
Suppliers links at for
contact information and our current list) sell pigment dispersions (pigment
suspended in some sort of water-based vehicle ready for printing or your
additional formulation) which may be easier and safer to use than dry
pigments which are more likely to be inhaled. Commercial prepared
water-colors work very well for Japanese technique printing, but are by far
the most expensive option and do not appear to yield better results.

-- Mike

Mike Lyon
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Message 2
From: Aqua4tis #
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:55:31 EST
Subject: [Baren 23781] Re: Six Water based block ink questions, Greetings and Happy Ne...
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i cant answer all of your questions but i know of faust inks and i would
work with them just as you did the oil based inks roll them on the block
with the brayer
the aqua inks and more watery inks are used differently in the japanese
hopefully someone with more experience will answer the rest of your questions
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Message 3
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 09:58:20 -0800
Subject: [Baren 23782] Waterbased pigments
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Hi Shasta,
Welcome to Shasta (and Earl, too.) I think you will love this group!
Others more knowledgeable than I will no doubt answer your question
better, but here goes. It sounds like you have a mixed bag of apples
and oranges. There are water based inks intended to be used with
brayers & rollers in the Western tradition, the same as oil based inks.
I suspect that is what you have. And then there is the Japanese
(Eastern) tradition of waterbased woodblock printmaking which is a
whole different animal and involves using water color pigments with
rice paste and special brushes and papers. They are totally different
processes - the latter being the much more difficult to master! There
are limitations and advantages to both. Most of the discussions on
this forum involve the Eastern methods, but sometimes the information
will apply to both, and anything woodblock is fair game. I think most
of us still print in the Western tradition, but are trying to learn the

BTW - I tried using Akua for hanga (Eastern) and was not happy with the
results. The inks were very opaque, and did not produce the results I
was after. Maybe if I were more experienced it would have worked, but
when I used just plain old watercolor pigments, I was much happier.
Transparency is everything in that technique! And, I have been using
methyl cellulose rather than rice paste and like the way it handles and
keeps - no nasty moldy problems.

Happy printing,
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Message 4
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 10:55:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23783] Paper and mall stuff
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Happy New Year Baren!

I got the nicest letter from Kazuo and Kinuko Yamamguchi thanking us for our paper order. It was in English, which must be difficult for them. They said:

"Thank you very much for your yen, Please use our paper next time"
Signed Yamaguchi, Kasuo and Kinuko

It was addressed to Barbara Mason-san. I am sure they do not know if I am male or female unless Dave has told them. I was so delighted with the note, how kind of them.
There English is sure better than my Japanese, which of course is non-exsistant except for some printmaking terms. Hard to converse knowing only 20 words that are pretty process specific.

At any rate, we now have 200 sheets of wonderful Yamaguchi paper in the mall store room, Winter Paper, the best kind. So if you are coveting some with your Christmas money, I will be very happy to ship it to you!

We want to encourage this hand made paper supply, I know they are concerned with the economy and their orders are down. I worry that in the next few years it will become unavailable at any price. I guess we will cry when that happens.

We are already having a problem with the bamboo sheaths, having lost our suppler in Japan due to his untimely death and his children closing up shop to sell the very valuable property his business sat on. The mall page for these has gone away for the time being, we hope to still fill pending orders but we are unsure when.

We still have some calendars for sale, so if you need another one, we will sure be happy to send it to you. We think we raised a couple of thousand dollars for Baren with this effort, or will when all are sold. Julio Rodriguez gets a huge thank you for doing almost all the work by himself of assembling and mailing them out. This money will pay for out website and help with exhibition expenses and pay our fees for the accountant and IRS. We are soon to be a non-profit..we hope. The never ending paper transfer back and forth with the govenment still goes forward. I am confident we will have it soon.

Best to all and again, A Happy New Year!
Barbara Mason
Mall Manager

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Message 5
From: Aqua4tis #
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 19:59:17 EST
Subject: [Baren 23784] calendars
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hi barbara
can you send me your address again? i have the check in an envelope
just waiting to be sent :-)
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Message 6
From: "MPereira"
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 23:23:01 -0200
Subject: [Baren 23785] Re: question for murilo
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Hi, Sarah,
I think your question must be ansewred by now.
Anyway, in centimeters A4 = 29,6 x 21,1 cm.

I'm asking for two colour xeroxes copies
of a self portrait
of which the paper size would be = to A4 = 29,6 x 21,1 cm.
It's simple to make: you pick up your self portrait original
print, B&W or colors, and go to the Xerox store
and ask for two color copies of the print in size A4,
and send'em to me.
I think everybody could participate, please.


Murilo Antonio Pereira
Rua Almirante Lamego, 870 - apto. 405
Centro - Florianópolis - Santa Catarina

My phone number : 048 - 225-2885
Please call me.

PS. If you want to bring the copies yourself,
please come tha the city will be honoured.
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Message 7
From: "MPereira"
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 23:43:26 -0200
Subject: [Baren 23786] Re: question for murilo
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People, I'm here again , excuse me,

but I forget to ask you to send with the reproductions

four or five lines of your Curriculum.

Happy New Year for all.
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Message 8
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 17:49:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23787] Re: calendars
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Make the check out to Baren Forum and send to
Barbara Mason
4440 SW 198th
Aloha OR 97007
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Message 9
From: Troy Harris
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 22:29:57 -0800 (PST)
Subject: [Baren 23788] Re: Re-surfacing boxwood or end grain Maple...
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Hi Maria,

Thanks again for this advice.

I was wondering, I have been reading in a woodworking
magazine a couple of things about planning end grain
with a block plane, they recommend a couple of methods

They recommend that I slightly put a bevel on all the
edges of the end grain so that the edge of the block
will not split as the blade moves over the edge. Do
you bevel your edges? Or if the blade is really
sharp, and I move slowly, will this be a problem?

Another method the mags recommend is that I clamp
another piece of scrap wood alongside the edges of the
block so that if there is splitting at the ends, the
scrap wood will take the damage and not the block. Do
you find this necessary?

Lastly how do you deal with the problem of the blade
being only an inch or two wide (my block plane is 1
5/8 inches wide)? Is it difficult to line up the edge
of the cut along the face of the block, so that the
block is flat and has equal and uniform cuts, with no
high spots on the surface – any suggestions there?

Does the block need to be perfectly flat if printing
in an etching press, or if my block ends up slightly
uneven, can I solve this problem easily with
make-ready newsprint under the block on the press bed,
to even out the pressure?

I ask this because although I’d love to get a drum
sander to resurface, just can’t afford it and if I
could do it using your method it would be a great cost
saver for me.

> I use a Workmate bench that clamps the block by its
> sides, leaving the
> top 1/4" free for planing the entire surface. A
> Basic woodworking plane
> will do but spend some time sharpening the thing to
> a razor's edge and
> then some more time making sure that the blade is
> _absolutely_ even from
> side to side.
> When planing the trick is to shave off very thin
> shavings from edge to
> edge, following a pattern so that you don't lower
> the block more in one
> area than another. Once the plane starts resisting,
> pop that blade out
> and hone again. My first blocks looked like remnants
> of dog-chewed
> hamburger; after some practice I was able to have my
> pet mouse ice-skate
> on the blocks. Okay, there might be some
> exaggeration in there...
> Good luck with it and do share any tips and tricks
> you learn along the
> way.
> Maria
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Message 10
From: "Robert Canaga"
Date: Fri, 2 Jan 2004 22:37:53 -0800
Subject: [Baren 23789] Re: Re-surfacing boxwood or end grain Maple...
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Clamping a wood block next to the one you are planeing work great. Slow and
careful wins the race!