Today's postings
- [Baren 25048] Cross colour contamination (Jan Telfer)
- [Baren 25049] Re: Baren Digest (old) V27 #2648 (Jan Telfer)
- [Baren 25050] Re: Cross colour contamination (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 25051] Brushes and black (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 25052] Re: Collaboration opportunity for printmakers (Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com)
Message 1
From: Jan Telfer
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 22:42:17 +0800
Subject: [Baren 25048] Cross colour contamination
Send Message: To this poster
I have just finished 8 proof prints of my Exchange #21 Surimono prints
and I need to ask for help .......
YELLOW PROBLEM:
I am currently printing 4 blocks...... watercolour..... strong red,
grey, strong lemon yellow and black ...in that order.
The first problem is with the yellow block. Because of the strong red,
it is being "picked up" on the yellow block as I progressed through the
8 proofs. I took a print of the first print on butchers' paper and
the yellow of course was the selected yellow, but as the prints
progressed the yellow, tainted with the red coming off the previous
printings turned the yellow to orange..... just imagine the tint of
the red in the yellow when I do my 40 odd edition!
Is there an easy solution to this? I did think of washing off the
block every six or so prints, printing off on to butchers' paper every
6 or so may slow down the contamination, or maybe I can just "live with
it" which won't be difficult with the subject of this print although
the edition will change from 1 to 40.
I don't want to use the yellow underneath the red although if it will
be the only solution I could do that.
BLACK PROBLEM:
The black watercolour seems to be drying very quickly on the block but
because it is only a small area isn't a real issue this time, but it
may be next time with a bigger area to cover.
When I was the brushes out the black feels very oily as if it were from
the Texas Oil Wells! It comes off with soap and I even thought of
putting a drop of washing up liquid into the black watercolour. Would
this make any difference to the overall "value" of the print or eat
holes in the paper or something, Jack? I don't intend putting enough
in that it could be used in a bubble pipe.... just imagine my face in
several of the black bubbles burst! Hold that thought!!!
Would Ox Gall or something help here?
The black brushes always seem harder and take longer to clean than any
other colour and even when I think they are clean and give them a final
squeeze out comes more black.. I think I need the luxury of having
one brush marked "Black only".
I would be grateful for your guidance.
With thanks,
Jan
and I need to ask for help .......
YELLOW PROBLEM:
I am currently printing 4 blocks...... watercolour..... strong red,
grey, strong lemon yellow and black ...in that order.
The first problem is with the yellow block. Because of the strong red,
it is being "picked up" on the yellow block as I progressed through the
8 proofs. I took a print of the first print on butchers' paper and
the yellow of course was the selected yellow, but as the prints
progressed the yellow, tainted with the red coming off the previous
printings turned the yellow to orange..... just imagine the tint of
the red in the yellow when I do my 40 odd edition!
Is there an easy solution to this? I did think of washing off the
block every six or so prints, printing off on to butchers' paper every
6 or so may slow down the contamination, or maybe I can just "live with
it" which won't be difficult with the subject of this print although
the edition will change from 1 to 40.
I don't want to use the yellow underneath the red although if it will
be the only solution I could do that.
BLACK PROBLEM:
The black watercolour seems to be drying very quickly on the block but
because it is only a small area isn't a real issue this time, but it
may be next time with a bigger area to cover.
When I was the brushes out the black feels very oily as if it were from
the Texas Oil Wells! It comes off with soap and I even thought of
putting a drop of washing up liquid into the black watercolour. Would
this make any difference to the overall "value" of the print or eat
holes in the paper or something, Jack? I don't intend putting enough
in that it could be used in a bubble pipe.... just imagine my face in
several of the black bubbles burst! Hold that thought!!!
Would Ox Gall or something help here?
The black brushes always seem harder and take longer to clean than any
other colour and even when I think they are clean and give them a final
squeeze out comes more black.. I think I need the luxury of having
one brush marked "Black only".
I would be grateful for your guidance.
With thanks,
Jan
Message 2
From: Jan Telfer
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 23:32:27 +0800
Subject: [Baren 25049] Re: Baren Digest (old) V27 #2648
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Mary,
What is the difference between Pipestone "Catlinite" and Soapstone?
The Soapstone I have used here is Australia is a pale opalescent
blue/green but carves in much the same way as you were descibing
Pipestone. It shaves off very finely and polishes to a high sheen. I
think it is used a lot in Chucks as well as sculpture. I have some in
my work shed so will try a little carving and print in oil this
weekend and let you know what results I get. It is very easily cut
with a hacksaw blade.
I couldn't find the web page.... Not Found.... but that often doesn't
mean much.... will try again tomorrow!
Regards,
Jan
Perth, Western Australia
> From: Mary Brooks-Mueller
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:51:49 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: [Baren 25039] Pipestone engraving
>
> Has anyone ever tried to use Pipestone for engraving
> in the place of wood. It is a very different
> experience. Pipestone is grey or red and I use the
> red, it is a silky stone and cust almost too easily,
> but responds with the point of a gentle scraper or
> intagio scribe, giving vert delicate lines, or
> sometime small chips if you are too vigorous on it. It
> is also very porous like slate or compacted silt.
>
> It doesn't respond well to water inks. Well actually
> it will swallow them up.. But as an experiment in
> engraving small even tiny prints i enjoy the trial.
> Some come out sharo and clear, some a bit more rustic.
>
> I also like using it in place of TYPE, but it must be
> hand printed as it won't withstand a press.
>
> The stone itself, "Catlinite" is mined in the northern
> plains states. I'm a bit Cherokee and know of several
> sources. It is not sold totally exclusively to
> Natives. Some quantities are sold as they are mined,
> which is a tedious process. So, sometimes and order
> may be delayed.
>
> At anyrate, interested printers can look at:
> pipekeepers.org/catalogue
> $10/#, sizes vary from 1 inch squares to 1x3x6"
> slabcut.
> Also:
> Matoska.com
> $15/# for 2-3"x6-10" slabcut.
>
> There are some places in South Dakota as well.
> All slabcuts come are rough, but easily honed smooth
> as glass.
> Glad for any feedbakc
> Mary in Mexico
What is the difference between Pipestone "Catlinite" and Soapstone?
The Soapstone I have used here is Australia is a pale opalescent
blue/green but carves in much the same way as you were descibing
Pipestone. It shaves off very finely and polishes to a high sheen. I
think it is used a lot in Chucks as well as sculpture. I have some in
my work shed so will try a little carving and print in oil this
weekend and let you know what results I get. It is very easily cut
with a hacksaw blade.
I couldn't find the web page.... Not Found.... but that often doesn't
mean much.... will try again tomorrow!
Regards,
Jan
Perth, Western Australia
> From: Mary Brooks-Mueller
> Date: Tue, 11 May 2004 20:51:49 -0700 (PDT)
> Subject: [Baren 25039] Pipestone engraving
>
> Has anyone ever tried to use Pipestone for engraving
> in the place of wood. It is a very different
> experience. Pipestone is grey or red and I use the
> red, it is a silky stone and cust almost too easily,
> but responds with the point of a gentle scraper or
> intagio scribe, giving vert delicate lines, or
> sometime small chips if you are too vigorous on it. It
> is also very porous like slate or compacted silt.
>
> It doesn't respond well to water inks. Well actually
> it will swallow them up.. But as an experiment in
> engraving small even tiny prints i enjoy the trial.
> Some come out sharo and clear, some a bit more rustic.
>
> I also like using it in place of TYPE, but it must be
> hand printed as it won't withstand a press.
>
> The stone itself, "Catlinite" is mined in the northern
> plains states. I'm a bit Cherokee and know of several
> sources. It is not sold totally exclusively to
> Natives. Some quantities are sold as they are mined,
> which is a tedious process. So, sometimes and order
> may be delayed.
>
> At anyrate, interested printers can look at:
> pipekeepers.org/catalogue
> $10/#, sizes vary from 1 inch squares to 1x3x6"
> slabcut.
> Also:
> Matoska.com
> $15/# for 2-3"x6-10" slabcut.
>
> There are some places in South Dakota as well.
> All slabcuts come are rough, but easily honed smooth
> as glass.
> Glad for any feedbakc
> Mary in Mexico
Message 3
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 11:48:57 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25050] Re: Cross colour contamination
Send Message: To this poster
Jan Telfer wrote:
>I have just finished 8 proof prints of my Exchange #21 Surimono prints and
>I need to ask for help .......
>YELLOW PROBLEM: I am currently printing 4 blocks...... watercolour.....
>strong red, grey, strong lemon yellow and black ...in that order.
>
>The first problem is with the yellow block. Because of the strong red, it
>is being "picked up" on the yellow block as I progressed through the 8
>proofs. I took a print of the first print on butchers' paper and the
>yellow of course was the selected yellow, but as the prints progressed the
>yellow, tainted with the red coming off the previous printings turned the
>yellow to orange..... just imagine the tint of the red in the yellow when
>I do my 40 odd edition! Is there an easy solution to this?
Print the Yellow first, then the gray, then the red, then the black -- OR
-- print the red in several thin layers AND add a small amount of glue
(hide glue) to your color -- this will make the color more fast, but may
make subsequent over-printings more difficult, as the glue behaves like
additional sizing and makes the paper less affectionate to pigment. -- OR
-- be prepared to frequently change (or clean) printing brush (and perhaps
the block as well)...
BLACK PROBLEM:
>The black watercolour seems to be drying very quickly on the block but
>because it is only a small area isn't a real issue this time, but it may
>be next time with a bigger area to cover.
You didn't describe the pigments you are using or their preparation -- that
might be helpful in finding a solution... Use sumi in place of black
water-color. Or mix dry black pigment into rice-paste or use rice-paste
and pigment dispersion... The rice-paste not only makes a terrific
vehicle, it also is an effective retarder. For six or seven years I used
only prepared watercolors in tubes for hanga pigment -- now I use a double
boiler to cook up rice-paste (from rice starch -- four level teaspoons in
1/2 cup of water heated until completely thickened -- about 5 minutes -- in
double boiler) and mix dry pigment directly into the paste with reasonable
ease -- or first mix the pigment into alcohol and then into paste -- then I
use the paste/pigment mixture in dabs directly onto the block with
additional paste and water to taste. MUCH more control and MUCH
cheaper! I also use pigment dispersions sometimes -- adding directly to
paste, to make concentrated color for printing -- but I don't have as much
control, as I don't know what besides pigment is in the dispersions nor
exactly how (other than experience) they will behave.
>The black brushes always seem harder and take longer to clean than any
>other colour and even when I think they are clean and give them a final
>squeeze out comes more black.. I think I need the luxury of having one
>brush marked "Black only".
Well the 'black brush' is the most effective solution. But I wash my
brushes a bit differently -- when I wash them, that is... I actually rinse
them, saturating them and rubbing two brushes together, then SHAKEing the
water out of them with a hard flick of the wrist/arm and then repeating
until the water SHAKEn out is clear. Otherwise, the pigment seems to stay
in there 'forever' -- the shakeing seems to allow more rinsing action amid
the very think hairs of my maru-bake.
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
>I have just finished 8 proof prints of my Exchange #21 Surimono prints and
>I need to ask for help .......
>YELLOW PROBLEM: I am currently printing 4 blocks...... watercolour.....
>strong red, grey, strong lemon yellow and black ...in that order.
>
>The first problem is with the yellow block. Because of the strong red, it
>is being "picked up" on the yellow block as I progressed through the 8
>proofs. I took a print of the first print on butchers' paper and the
>yellow of course was the selected yellow, but as the prints progressed the
>yellow, tainted with the red coming off the previous printings turned the
>yellow to orange..... just imagine the tint of the red in the yellow when
>I do my 40 odd edition! Is there an easy solution to this?
Print the Yellow first, then the gray, then the red, then the black -- OR
-- print the red in several thin layers AND add a small amount of glue
(hide glue) to your color -- this will make the color more fast, but may
make subsequent over-printings more difficult, as the glue behaves like
additional sizing and makes the paper less affectionate to pigment. -- OR
-- be prepared to frequently change (or clean) printing brush (and perhaps
the block as well)...
BLACK PROBLEM:
>The black watercolour seems to be drying very quickly on the block but
>because it is only a small area isn't a real issue this time, but it may
>be next time with a bigger area to cover.
You didn't describe the pigments you are using or their preparation -- that
might be helpful in finding a solution... Use sumi in place of black
water-color. Or mix dry black pigment into rice-paste or use rice-paste
and pigment dispersion... The rice-paste not only makes a terrific
vehicle, it also is an effective retarder. For six or seven years I used
only prepared watercolors in tubes for hanga pigment -- now I use a double
boiler to cook up rice-paste (from rice starch -- four level teaspoons in
1/2 cup of water heated until completely thickened -- about 5 minutes -- in
double boiler) and mix dry pigment directly into the paste with reasonable
ease -- or first mix the pigment into alcohol and then into paste -- then I
use the paste/pigment mixture in dabs directly onto the block with
additional paste and water to taste. MUCH more control and MUCH
cheaper! I also use pigment dispersions sometimes -- adding directly to
paste, to make concentrated color for printing -- but I don't have as much
control, as I don't know what besides pigment is in the dispersions nor
exactly how (other than experience) they will behave.
>The black brushes always seem harder and take longer to clean than any
>other colour and even when I think they are clean and give them a final
>squeeze out comes more black.. I think I need the luxury of having one
>brush marked "Black only".
Well the 'black brush' is the most effective solution. But I wash my
brushes a bit differently -- when I wash them, that is... I actually rinse
them, saturating them and rubbing two brushes together, then SHAKEing the
water out of them with a hard flick of the wrist/arm and then repeating
until the water SHAKEn out is clear. Otherwise, the pigment seems to stay
in there 'forever' -- the shakeing seems to allow more rinsing action amid
the very think hairs of my maru-bake.
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
Message 4
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 10:46:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 25051] Brushes and black
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Hey Jan,
Hope all else is well down under...I think you need an all black brush. I find it nearly impossible to get it all out. I have rinsed, shaken, washed with kitchen dish soap, rinsed until the water runs clear and then blotted on towels, only to see more black. So my advise is to get one brush for black and just use it for that color. I recommend the sumi ink over the watercolor, it is blacker and cheaper. I know some people never use soap in their brushes, but I have always cleaned my brushes with soap...the secret is to rinse them really well afterwards. I have never had a problem doing this, but the rinsing does take time and patience. I shake the heck out of them and blot them on towels when I am done to get more of the water out, then lay on their sides to dry.
Best to you,
Barbara
Hope all else is well down under...I think you need an all black brush. I find it nearly impossible to get it all out. I have rinsed, shaken, washed with kitchen dish soap, rinsed until the water runs clear and then blotted on towels, only to see more black. So my advise is to get one brush for black and just use it for that color. I recommend the sumi ink over the watercolor, it is blacker and cheaper. I know some people never use soap in their brushes, but I have always cleaned my brushes with soap...the secret is to rinse them really well afterwards. I have never had a problem doing this, but the rinsing does take time and patience. I shake the heck out of them and blot them on towels when I am done to get more of the water out, then lay on their sides to dry.
Best to you,
Barbara
Message 5
From: Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com
Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 16:08:14 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25052] Re: Collaboration opportunity for printmakers
Send Message: To this poster
I recently purchased a japanese print from EBAY. The seller has been
involved with buying/selling japanese prints on ebay for a while now and
is in the process of opening his own gallery. He is interested in finding
a printmaker to work with on his personal designs. He is looking perhaps
to do a series of at least four prints or more and for someone to carve
and print his designs.
Anyone interested please contact Peter at the email below:
Peter Belsito
thanks.....Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)
involved with buying/selling japanese prints on ebay for a while now and
is in the process of opening his own gallery. He is interested in finding
a printmaker to work with on his personal designs. He is looking perhaps
to do a series of at least four prints or more and for someone to carve
and print his designs.
Anyone interested please contact Peter at the email below:
Peter Belsito
thanks.....Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)