Today's postings
- [Baren 25216] Re: Experience with double-roller press? (David Bull)
- [Baren 25217] Re: Experience with double-roller press? (Mike Lyon)
- [Baren 25218] Re: Experience with double-roller press? (Shireen Holman)
- [Baren 25219] RE: Experience with double-roller press? ("Maria Arango")
- [Baren 25220] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V27 #2679 (Jun 10, 2004) (Sharri LaPierre)
- [Baren 25221] art and politics (Charles Morgan)
- [Baren 25222] Re: art and politics (FurryPressII # aol.com)
- [Baren 25223] Re: art and politics (michael schneider)
- [Baren 25224] Re: art and politics (ArtfulCarol # aol.com)
- [Baren 25225] Re: Experience with double-roller press? (Margaret Szvetecz)
Message 1
From: David Bull
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 22:23:57 +0900
Subject: [Baren 25216] Re: Experience with double-roller press?
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> • The 'problem' may be unequal stretching of the paper -- did you
> feed the paper in the direction of the grain (that's what I'd have
> automatically done)? Maybe it would be better to run it with the
> grain parallel to the rollers -- worth another experiment?
Wanted to try this, but couldn't, as the thing isn't wide enough to
take an o-ban sheet sideways. Could make quite a difference, as this
kind of paper expands much more 'sideways' than 'lengthways'.
> • The rollers may not be stiff enough.
They seem OK ... _very_ heavy and stiff, and as this is only 40cm wide,
I can't believe they are flexing at all, not on this thin little paper.
> • The rollers may have been machined inaccurately (non-cylindrical)
> or the press may be adjusted so that the rollers are perfectly
> parallel.
This is a definite possible maybe. Jack mentioned this too, and this is
the prime suspect. The way the thing is made there is a metal bar just
blocking the view when one tries to sight along the gap between the
rollers to see how even it is, but I think the rollers were touching
down in the centre area before the edges. Might be made that way, to
compensate for the 'edge' pressure at the outer end of the rollers.
> • Reduce pressure slightly by backing out the adjusting screws and
> see if that improves feed (but that won't improve calendaring).
This did work ... but by the time it was backed-off enough to stop
buckling, there was no calendaring effect left ...
> you might try Thomas presses, where you can get a 24 x 36 table top
> etching press for $1395
But as I mentioned, the last thing I want to do is fill up my room with
a big press like this. I'm sure it isn't 'big' by North American
standards, but things are on a different scale here (as Mike can
testify - when he and his father visited my workroom last year, the
three of us sat together talking, and there was barely room to put a
teacup on the floor between us ...)
It's a bit frustrating when I think that if I were living over there,
it would be a simple matter to find a local machine shop where some guy
would listen to the description and then say "Yeah, I can put something
like that together for you ...". Over here, you would have to hunt for
a _long_ time before finding somebody who would agree to try something
'different' from his normal work, and even if you could, it would
become a major production ... with major expenses.
Maybe I'll just hunt up a printmaking studio somewhere in the area, and
see if I can beg/borrow time with one of their presses whenever I need
paper treated this way ...
Dave
> feed the paper in the direction of the grain (that's what I'd have
> automatically done)? Maybe it would be better to run it with the
> grain parallel to the rollers -- worth another experiment?
Wanted to try this, but couldn't, as the thing isn't wide enough to
take an o-ban sheet sideways. Could make quite a difference, as this
kind of paper expands much more 'sideways' than 'lengthways'.
> • The rollers may not be stiff enough.
They seem OK ... _very_ heavy and stiff, and as this is only 40cm wide,
I can't believe they are flexing at all, not on this thin little paper.
> • The rollers may have been machined inaccurately (non-cylindrical)
> or the press may be adjusted so that the rollers are perfectly
> parallel.
This is a definite possible maybe. Jack mentioned this too, and this is
the prime suspect. The way the thing is made there is a metal bar just
blocking the view when one tries to sight along the gap between the
rollers to see how even it is, but I think the rollers were touching
down in the centre area before the edges. Might be made that way, to
compensate for the 'edge' pressure at the outer end of the rollers.
> • Reduce pressure slightly by backing out the adjusting screws and
> see if that improves feed (but that won't improve calendaring).
This did work ... but by the time it was backed-off enough to stop
buckling, there was no calendaring effect left ...
> you might try Thomas presses, where you can get a 24 x 36 table top
> etching press for $1395
But as I mentioned, the last thing I want to do is fill up my room with
a big press like this. I'm sure it isn't 'big' by North American
standards, but things are on a different scale here (as Mike can
testify - when he and his father visited my workroom last year, the
three of us sat together talking, and there was barely room to put a
teacup on the floor between us ...)
It's a bit frustrating when I think that if I were living over there,
it would be a simple matter to find a local machine shop where some guy
would listen to the description and then say "Yeah, I can put something
like that together for you ...". Over here, you would have to hunt for
a _long_ time before finding somebody who would agree to try something
'different' from his normal work, and even if you could, it would
become a major production ... with major expenses.
Maybe I'll just hunt up a printmaking studio somewhere in the area, and
see if I can beg/borrow time with one of their presses whenever I need
paper treated this way ...
Dave
Message 2
From: Mike Lyon
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:43:57 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25217] Re: Experience with double-roller press?
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David Bull wrote:
>Maybe I'll just hunt up a printmaking studio somewhere in the area, and
>see if I can beg/borrow time with one of their presses whenever I need
>paper treated this way ...
NOW you're talking! Check your local schools/colleges, especially art
schools -- I bet they'd welcome you (especially if you offered a
lecture/demo) and that you'll be able to run several hundred sheets an hour...
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
>Maybe I'll just hunt up a printmaking studio somewhere in the area, and
>see if I can beg/borrow time with one of their presses whenever I need
>paper treated this way ...
NOW you're talking! Check your local schools/colleges, especially art
schools -- I bet they'd welcome you (especially if you offered a
lecture/demo) and that you'll be able to run several hundred sheets an hour...
-- Mike
Mike Lyon
http://mlyon.com
Message 3
From: Shireen Holman
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 09:46:48 -0400
Subject: [Baren 25218] Re: Experience with double-roller press?
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My impression (pun not intended) is that a press like the one in your
picture would not be capable of applying enough pressure evenly because
there is nothing like a bed in between the two rollers. If you don't have
room for a small press, I think your idea of borrowing time on someone
else's would be the best solution - even if you have to rent press time,
would you spend more than $900?
Shireen
Message 4
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 07:56:26 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25219] RE: Experience with double-roller press?
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I agree you need a "bed" of sorts and perhaps a felt or at least a
matboard surface for the rollers to press against.
Yet another problem with roller against roller is that the surface of
the rollers may be smooth to the plain sight but may have machining
striations that, under high pressure, work against each other and
produce a "crawl."
Maybe try one of these? They are small, economical and suitable enough
for what you want; really nothing more than what you have except they
have the bed (and customer support):
http://www.dickblick.com/categories/etchingpresses/
Maria
matboard surface for the rollers to press against.
Yet another problem with roller against roller is that the surface of
the rollers may be smooth to the plain sight but may have machining
striations that, under high pressure, work against each other and
produce a "crawl."
Maybe try one of these? They are small, economical and suitable enough
for what you want; really nothing more than what you have except they
have the bed (and customer support):
http://www.dickblick.com/categories/etchingpresses/
Maria
Message 5
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 08:57:23 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25220] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V27 #2679 (Jun 10, 2004)
Send Message: To this poster
Dave,
I think the damp paper will help, but a piece of cardboard or masonite
and one etching felt (a pusher) should really do the trick. I've never
had paper buckle, but I've never tried to put it through the press
without a felt. Good luck!
I have a question: I'm going to start mortar and pestleing the colors I
ordered through the Baren Mall this afternoon. How fine should I grind
these, I assume it is prudent to wear a mask, and should I grind the
whole batch and mix with alcohol? Or just a little at a time?
I am off to do a radio interview about printmaking and Print Arts
Northwest, but I intend to get a plug for Baren.org in the
conversation, too. However, I have an awful cold and sound like a
bullfrog in estrus - if that is what frogs do. And my brain feels like
a wad of grey wool. But, ignorance & stupidity have never stopped me
yet - I should have been a politician.
Happy Printing,
Sharri
I think the damp paper will help, but a piece of cardboard or masonite
and one etching felt (a pusher) should really do the trick. I've never
had paper buckle, but I've never tried to put it through the press
without a felt. Good luck!
I have a question: I'm going to start mortar and pestleing the colors I
ordered through the Baren Mall this afternoon. How fine should I grind
these, I assume it is prudent to wear a mask, and should I grind the
whole batch and mix with alcohol? Or just a little at a time?
I am off to do a radio interview about printmaking and Print Arts
Northwest, but I intend to get a plug for Baren.org in the
conversation, too. However, I have an awful cold and sound like a
bullfrog in estrus - if that is what frogs do. And my brain feels like
a wad of grey wool. But, ignorance & stupidity have never stopped me
yet - I should have been a politician.
Happy Printing,
Sharri
Message 6
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 13:39:09 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25221] art and politics
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Beverly Schlee wrote:
As some of you know, I make artists books as a member of a group called
Critical Art Ensemble. Besides books, we also make videos and do performance
art. Lately, the topic of much of our artwork has been to make people aware
of genetically modified food. Recently, Hope Kurtz, who wrote most of the
text for the books, died suddenly of heart failure. Her husband, Steve, who
is also in the group, called 911. The paramedics saw some of the props for
our performance art in his house, including petri dishes and a machine that
analyzes food for genetically modified ingredients, and called the FBI. The
FBI, armed with the Patriot Act, searched Steve's house, office, took his
artwork, his wife's body, and even locked up his cat. Steve is a professor
of art at SUNY Buffalo. He is going to be indicted before a grand jury on
June 15 on charges of possessing materials that can be used for
bioterrorism. The rest of the group has been subpoenaed. So far, I have not,
but the FBI was in my neighborhood on Saturday, asking the neighbors about
me. The whole story can be read at http://caedefensefund.org
Beverly Schlee
As some of you know, I make artists books as a member of a group called
Critical Art Ensemble. Besides books, we also make videos and do performance
art. Lately, the topic of much of our artwork has been to make people aware
of genetically modified food. Recently, Hope Kurtz, who wrote most of the
text for the books, died suddenly of heart failure. Her husband, Steve, who
is also in the group, called 911. The paramedics saw some of the props for
our performance art in his house, including petri dishes and a machine that
analyzes food for genetically modified ingredients, and called the FBI. The
FBI, armed with the Patriot Act, searched Steve's house, office, took his
artwork, his wife's body, and even locked up his cat. Steve is a professor
of art at SUNY Buffalo. He is going to be indicted before a grand jury on
June 15 on charges of possessing materials that can be used for
bioterrorism. The rest of the group has been subpoenaed. So far, I have not,
but the FBI was in my neighborhood on Saturday, asking the neighbors about
me. The whole story can be read at http://caedefensefund.org
Beverly Schlee
Message 7
From: FurryPressII # aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 18:05:08 EDT
Subject: [Baren 25222] Re: art and politics
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If i were a para-medic and I saw what you say they saw I would call the FBI.
Recently I was in a store that had a leftist political bent were they were
selling "fake bombs"
Sorry but in this day and age it is not too smart to do such things.
john center
Recently I was in a store that had a leftist political bent were they were
selling "fake bombs"
Sorry but in this day and age it is not too smart to do such things.
john center
Message 8
From: michael schneider
Date: Fri, 11 Jun 2004 01:01:07 +0200
Subject: [Baren 25223] Re: art and politics
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Charles Morgan wrote:
> Beverly Schlee wrote:
>
> As some of you know, I make artists books as a member of a group called
> Critical Art Ensemble. Besides books, we also make videos and do
> performance
> art. Lately, the topic of much of our artwork has been to make people
> aware
> of genetically modified food. Recently, Hope Kurtz, who wrote most of the
> text for the books, died suddenly of heart failure. Her husband,
> Steve, who
> is also in the group, called 911. The paramedics saw some of the props
> for
> our performance art in his house, including petri dishes and a machine
> that
> analyzes food for genetically modified ingredients, and called the
> FBI. The
> FBI, armed with the Patriot Act, searched Steve's house, office, took his
> artwork, his wife's body, and even locked up his cat. Steve is a
> professor
> of art at SUNY Buffalo. He is going to be indicted before a grand jury on
> June 15 on charges of possessing materials that can be used for
> bioterrorism. The rest of the group has been subpoenaed. So far, I
> have not,
> but the FBI was in my neighborhood on Saturday, asking the neighbors
> about
> me. The whole story can be read at http://caedefensefund.org
>
>
> Beverly Schlee
>
>
>
Fortunately the art scene here in Vienna has got the information already
and is aware of what is going on. This is at lest a good sign, because
it shows that the mass media does not have complete control over the
flow of information. Please keep us updated.
michael
> Beverly Schlee wrote:
>
> As some of you know, I make artists books as a member of a group called
> Critical Art Ensemble. Besides books, we also make videos and do
> performance
> art. Lately, the topic of much of our artwork has been to make people
> aware
> of genetically modified food. Recently, Hope Kurtz, who wrote most of the
> text for the books, died suddenly of heart failure. Her husband,
> Steve, who
> is also in the group, called 911. The paramedics saw some of the props
> for
> our performance art in his house, including petri dishes and a machine
> that
> analyzes food for genetically modified ingredients, and called the
> FBI. The
> FBI, armed with the Patriot Act, searched Steve's house, office, took his
> artwork, his wife's body, and even locked up his cat. Steve is a
> professor
> of art at SUNY Buffalo. He is going to be indicted before a grand jury on
> June 15 on charges of possessing materials that can be used for
> bioterrorism. The rest of the group has been subpoenaed. So far, I
> have not,
> but the FBI was in my neighborhood on Saturday, asking the neighbors
> about
> me. The whole story can be read at http://caedefensefund.org
>
>
> Beverly Schlee
>
>
>
Fortunately the art scene here in Vienna has got the information already
and is aware of what is going on. This is at lest a good sign, because
it shows that the mass media does not have complete control over the
flow of information. Please keep us updated.
michael
Message 9
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 20:31:33 EDT
Subject: [Baren 25224] Re: art and politics
Send Message: To this poster
I agree wlith John.
I know first hand about scouts for terrorists right here ln River City!
Carol
Irvington, NY
I know first hand about scouts for terrorists right here ln River City!
Carol
Irvington, NY
Message 10
From: Margaret Szvetecz
Date: Thu, 10 Jun 2004 19:21:09 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Baren 25225] Re: Experience with double-roller press?
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When I was taking art classes at the University of Texas at Austin, I saw our lithography teacher "calendaring" paper one time, i.e. running the paper (one sheet at a time) through the lithography press to stretch it out so it would be dimensionally stable for the edition he was printing that needed very close registration.
Dave, I think having a lithographer "calendar" your paper, or getting them to set you use the press yourself might be an option for you, as other people have suggested.
Margaret Szvetecz
margarszv@earthlink.net