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Message 1
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 09:13:23 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25410] Re:after 5
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Well are you receiving this Georga?
The 4th of July is upon us. The weekenders and tourists are here. The sun
is out and my studio has a new roof.
Hope I get this #21 print all done early next week because the husband has
offered space for friends to stay in RV's for another friends house warming
party.
Tomorrow I help serve hotdogs at 11:00 on. Busy weekends.
Sorry about the political statements. It was not my idea to share it all
with the Baren.
Marilynn

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Message 2
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 09:19:40 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25411] Re: political print exchange
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Thank you John. As a group we should take no sides in politics.
Create what you want with your art individually.
If the group votes for this as a theme than i will not do it.
If the discussions become political than I will leave Baren.
Marilynn

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Message 3
From: Sharri LaPierre
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 09:45:45 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25412] Re: political print exchange
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Eli,

I think your idea for a politically oriented exchange is a great idea.
I don't know of any country on the planet who does not have politics,
so I don't think this is strictly a US thing. And, not that I'm
opinionated or anything, but we all have a viewpoint to express I would
wager. :-)

We did the 9/11 exchange and it was wonderful and a great chance for
political expression and NO ONE objected, that I recall, not even those
who are not US people. I don't consider Artists Rights, no matter what
country you live in, to be purely a US area of concern. Politics and
printmaking are hard to separate - historically they are linked and no
amount of whitewashing is going to alter that fact. I do believe,
however, you are going to have a problem with getting folks to send the
32nd print to raise funds. However, perhaps only those who are
interested can send in the extra print for that purpose and the rest
can keep their edition to 31 or save their extras to raise funds for
their own purposes. The only problem I see with the fund raising
aspect of your idea is "whose going to do it"? LOL

There are many subjects discussed on this forum, decorating studios and
deciding which furniture to keep, among others that are much more
loosely related to woodblock printing than Artists Rights - something
that affects us all. I don't hear anyone voicing dissent if one
wanders off the subject to rave about the weather where they spend part
of the year, where they visited last week, etc., etc. I suggest we all
loosen up a little and enjoy each other and what we bring to the forum
besides wood grain. We are supposed to be internet friends - not
adversaries.

Maybe we ought to do an exchange about religion. Woodblock has been
securely linked to that subject, too. Or, how about one that has to do
with propaganda? All legitimate ideas and highly charged - we
shouldn't have any trouble with getting lackluster prints - LOL How
about an exchange with no concepts whatever allowed - try and pull that
one off, it would at least be safe. Nothing but white paper.

Peacefully yours,
Sharri

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Message 4
From: Aqua4tis # aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 13:13:44 EDT
Subject: [Baren 25413] Re: political print exchange
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i agree john i like the idea of a print exchange but no funding georga

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Message 5
From: eli griggs
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 10:27:18 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 25414] Re: political print exchange
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Hi there:

John, you are right.

It would be wrong headed to associate all of Baren
with a single cause. To do so would run contrary to
the spirit of an exchange of many political
viewpoints.

Perhaps a freedom of expression exchange would be
better and if there are any/enough artists wanting to
donate prints for a cause, these could be collected by
a second coordinator, whom could forward these, not in
Barenss name, but as work of printmakers whom are also
members of Baren.

Cheers,
Eli

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Message 6
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 10:36:40 -0700
Subject: [Baren 25415] Re: political print exchange
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Okay second post. First of all I think studio furniture is very much about
woodblock printing, it is where I create it. Thank you Mary for responding
on the thought about a round table, it reflected my thoughts.
If you do not want me on this forum because i asked about my studio
furnishings than I will leave.
I did not send the post about where I live and how I feel to the Forum it
was sent to Mary. A joke, a weather comment or a studio question is not a
personal statement in any way. It will not hurt anothers feelings or
undercut them.

Already there are personal criticisms flying and we have not even begun to
really talk politics.
I will not be posting for awhile. I will let things be and if any more
personal comments come to me than I am gone from this forum.

Marilynn

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Message 7
From: Jeanne Norman Chase
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 11:14:44 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 25416] Re:after 5
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Marilynn

You had better not leave us or I will come and haunt you.

I am avoiding this subject like a plague.

Enjoy your posts and would miss them!!!!!!

Love
Jeanne N.

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Message 8
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 15:53:10 EDT
Subject: [Baren 25417] Re: political print exchange
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I didn't want to respond to this discussion but I must to set the record
straight about something said.
Fact:
911 Exchange was not a political Exchange. Almost 3000 innocent peope were
killed by evil intent.
To compare a political Exchange with that is wrong.

A Political Exchange for Baren? I vote NO. It is too volatile. Anyone is
free to organize outside of Baren, is my opinion.

Carol Lyons
Irvington, NY

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Message 9
From: slinders # comcast.net
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 15:51:32 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25418] "Politics As Usual" call for entries.......
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Hello, everyone!

Here is a possible outlet for Political printmakers:

"Politics As Usual" (A 'no fee' exhibit.)
Oct. 14- Nov. 20. All media. Deadline: July 30, 2004.
Submit 2-10 slides, resume, statement & SASE. No Prospectus.
Elise Blue, Dir., Orleans Street Gallery,
Pheasant Run Resort, St.Charles, IL 60174.


I would prefer not to use politics as a theme for a Baren
exchange.

Welcome to new Baren member Julie! I look forward to seeing
your work in an exchange soon!

Lezle, the press looks great! Enjoy it!

Belated Happy Canada Day to our northern neighbors, and Happy
Independence Day to members from the USA!

Sharen

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Message 10
From: b.patera # att.net
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 21:19:05 +0000
Subject: [Baren 25419] Re: politics and round table
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Eli I like the idea of doing a political print and if such an exchange gets off the ground I would like to be a part of it.

I also agree with John. The Baren shouldn't side with or contribute to any political organization.

Marilyn..... you should definitely keep your old round table. Not only does it give you a walk around view of your work but is a classy asset if you hold an open studio. As for flat rectangular surfaces ..... I use hollow core doors. They come in a variety of widths and are easily mounted on shelves/whatever to give you the proper height. Also, if you are a re-arranger (I am), you can easily re-arrange your entire studio in one day.

Barbara P.

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Message 11
From: Julio.Rodriguez # walgreens.com
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 18:45:24 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25420] Re: Exchange #20 is here !!!
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Hi guys...the #20 prints arrived today and they are a wonderful
mix.....lots of members participating for the first time in an exchange
and an unusual large number of 'people/portrait' prints.... I counted 12
out of 30 !!!! Good job all around.

Anyways, congratulations to all the participants for a most excellent
exchange and to Darrell Madis for all the hard work of coordinating,
collating, shipping and keeping all the stragglers (myself included)
online.....THANKS !!!!

Julio Rodriguez (Skokie, Illinois)

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Message 12
From: Margaret Szvetecz
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 20:47:51 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
Subject: [Baren 25421] political print exchange
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1. If a number of Bareners want to do a political print exchange, I think that politics or political positions could be a possible theme for a future exchange. I do think, however, that it is important for a Baren political print exchange not to be associated with political activity or fundraising. It is my understanding that exchange participants have always been allowed to make editions larger than the exchange and also to do whatever they wanted with the prints not sent in for the exchange. Thus each participant in the politics exchange (if we have one) could choose to do whatever she/he wanted with the extra prints not sent in for distribution to other participants.
2. I would also like to suggest (again) that we keep political posts off Baren. I accept that fact that lots of people have different political ideas than I do. I also accept the fact that lots of people have different religious ideas than I do. Respectfully speaking, I truly do not come to Baren to read posts attempting to "educate" me to someone else's way of thinking or believing about these issues. But I also accept the fact that there are Bareners who really want to make political posts. How about we allow political posts on "After 5", but we make sure that the political posts stay on "After 5"--as opposed to letting these types of posts drift onto Baren?
Margaret Szvetecz (margarszv@earthlink.net)

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Message 13
From: John and Michelle Morrell
Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2004 22:53:08 -0800
Subject: [Baren 25422] "Political" values print exchange
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georga wrote in response to Eli's suggestion:

>personally i like the idea of a political based woodcut exchange artists
>are the voices of their time and their society we all have differing
>opinions just like society

I have to agree although I try to avoid becoming too committed to my opinions of the moment. I perceive reality as an organic state of flux and fixed opinions quickly become absurd. I guess that's the difference between believing the world is in a constant state of change with all things being relative and believing that ideals are attainable no matter how much garbage we have to wade through.

Kathe Kollowitz was extremely political for her times. Consider Memorial to Karl Liebknecht as well as all the suffering poor she used as subject matter. These were not popular themes amoung the affluent. On the other hand, in the book Inquisition you will find a "renaissance" period Venetian orifice pear which is exquisitely engraved and crafted. It chills me to consider what kind of an artisan would put so much of his/herself into such an instrument of torture.

Whatever, Eli's proposed print exchange sounds lively and worthwhile.

Michelle Morrell
jmmorrell@gci.net
"Diapers and politicians need to be changed for the same reason."

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Message 14
From: "Rudolf Stalder"
Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2004 21:05:14 -0400
Subject: [Baren 25423] LPE-II
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Large Print Exchange : LPE-II prints are up for view

http://www.rst-art.com/lpewebshowtemp.htm

Best to all

Rudolf

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Message 15
From: Myron Turner
Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2004 07:26:39 -0500
Subject: [Baren 25424] Re: political print exchange
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Last year there were some explicitly political posts, with no connection to
art, the purpose of which was simply convert us to their views. At the
time, I myself wrote objecting to those kinds of posts.

But the initial post about Steve Kurtz and his group CAE (sent by Charles)
is about art and artists and the dangers of being an artist in today's
political environment. I agree with Sharri that we often post about
peripheral matters on this list---including children,
grandchildren, travel, etc. It would be a shame to relegate all of this to
After Five, since this kind of "irrelevance" adds some human presence to
the list. In the same way, posts like the one about Steve Kurtz reveal
something of the social/political contexts in which we practice our
art. The difference for many people between these two kinds of posts, it
seems to me, is that the one is controversial and the other is not. We are
being asked not to be controversial, and as long as what we post is
non-controversial, we seem to be able to say most anything.

Sharri's post on the latest news about the Kurtz prosecution was one I
forwarded to her because I had tried to post it to baren myself but it
never appeared, and I knew she's be interested in it. Since my post was
never returned to me as undelivered, I have to admit to wondering whether
it never got through because my name was flagged as belonging to someone
who had recently been posting controversial material to the list. I
hope this isn't true--it would be an awful burden on our webmaster to have
to vet every piece of mail which comes through and to be left with the
responsibility of deciding which passes and which does not.

Myron Turner

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End of [Baren] Digest