Today's postings

  1. [Baren 26834] Why frame? ("Love Me")
  2. [Baren 26835] Re: Why frame? (Shireen Holman)
  3. [Baren 26836] Re: framing ("jimandkatemundie #")
  4. [Baren 26837] RE: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923 ("marilynn smih")
  5. [Baren 26838] Re: Why frame? ("amanda yopp")
  6. [Baren 26839] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923 ("Bea Gold")
  7. [Baren 26840] RE: Why frame? ("Maria Diener (aka Arango)")
  8. [Baren 26841] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923 (Aqua4tis #
  9. [Baren 26842] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923 ("Diane Cutter")
  10. [Baren 26843] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923 (b.patera #
  11. [Baren 26844] frames love um our hate um (FurryPressII #
  12. [Baren 26845] RE: frames love um our hate um ("amanda yopp")
  13. [Baren 26846] Re: frames love um our hate um (FurryPressII #
  14. [Baren 26847] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2921 framing (Legreenart #
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Message 1
From: "Love Me"
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 01:03:31 +1100
Subject: [Baren 26834] Why frame?
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All this talk of frames is making my head spin. I give my prints away in little acid-free cardboard folders. Where hopefully they will live away from the light for years to come. Nothing looks nicer than an old print in pristine condition without glass. To me a frame means fading colour, yellow paper and mat burn. I would never buy a framed print so why sell them framed?

Yes I know, people want to hang em up.

Tom Kristensen
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Message 2
From: Shireen Holman
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:53:32 -0500
Subject: [Baren 26835] Re: Why frame?
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Nowadays most good artist inks are light fast and shouldn't fade. Also,
with good paper and archival matboard you shouldn't have yellowing. I used
to frame my own prints, but it always put me in a rotten mood, and the end
result left a lot to be desired. I finally decided that the frame is meant
to enhance the print, not ruin its effect, and I stopped doing my own
framing. I haven't had problems with frame shops, as long as I make sure
they use archival materials and methods - you do have to specify, because
sometimes they dry mount things and don't use acid free materials.
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Message 3
From: "jimandkatemundie #"
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 16:12:41 GMT
Subject: [Baren 26836] Re: framing
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Framing is a constant bugaboo for exhibiting artists -- and one of the more costly parts of this 'game'. There are framers and there are framers - some that do wonderful jobs and are a credit to their craft, and others are just plain lazy. Archival framing ain't cheap, but it's worth it. Ask your fellow artists to recommend somebody in your area before you invest.

However, to truly appreciate what goes into this (and why it can be expensive to have someone do it for you), I recommend that anyone who has never before framed something to give it try. You will either enjoy the process, or you'll be so darn frustrated that you'll gladly pay whatever a reputable framer charges to take the burden off of your shoulders. If you want to do it yourself, the process isn't really all that difficult, but it does require patience, diligence, careful attention to detail, cleanliness - and above all, the proper tools for the job.

For the last twelve years, I have been buying frames from an excellent frame shop here in Philadelphia. They know what I want, make my frames to order, and give me a decent discount. Over the years I have sent a lot of business their way, more people than I can count.

Generally, I have my framer make the frames and cut the glass, but I will cut the mats myself and put it all together. Generally, I'll order five or so frames at a time whenever I have a bit of spare cash, because then I'm not scrambling for a frame when the need arises. As a further convenience to myself, I have started buying from Light Impressions quantities of museum board and archival foam core pre-cut to my usual framing dimensions, so all I have to do is cut the 'window' in the mat.

This, of course, saves me money but not time. You really need to weigh the cost of the framing against your own effort. Do you have the time to do it yourself? Then go for it. Pressed for time? Then let the professionals do it.

I have recently made a concession to allow my framer to handle the complete task of framing my wife's pastel drawings. Messy stuff, pastel - and I would much rather let them deal with it. Luckily, because I have built up a relationship with my framers, the cost to let them handle it was much less than I expected, so I might be letting them take over some more of my usual framing tasks in the future.

James G. Mundie
Philadelphia PA, U.S.A.
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Message 4
From: "marilynn smih"
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 08:18:53 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26837] RE: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923
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Bea, I have traveled a lot with my art supplies. I have carved when we have
gone boating and even sketched the Columbia river as we chugged along on it.
Now in the Baja I do not have a real studio space and I carry a basket
that sits on the floor behind our chair around with me. I carve on the
balcony, out front on a table or out by the pool. It is fun to be outdoors
working and people are very polite. I have found that small works best when
one has limited space. Also I think water based is preferable to oil when
one works all over. I got the powdered pigments, now I do not have messy
leaking bottles to travel with. Because we will be flying back and forth in
the future i will leave my carving tools here. I have the power grip, with
a few Japanese chisels. The power grip are so well priced i will simply
order another set to be there when I get back up north. It is best to strip
away anything unecessary when working on the go and it is surprising how
little one really needs. I have a small bench hook, my handy husband made,
that is about 6x10 inches, a small case for pens, pencils, my carving tool
case, wood glue (ooops), my honing strop (chips can be repaired in the shop
after traveling), pigment powder, a mortar and pestel and small bottles .
Paper can be cut before one leaves to the right size. But I use a large
tube and roll it for our road travel. Containers to hold water and such are
easy to find anywhere. Blotters can be folded, or you can use toweling or
find a heavy paper towel. Just pack something in your plastic bags and you
can use them to hold your dampened paper. Oh yes and of course your
brushes, you really do not need 12 of them!
Jeanne your studio sounds fab. I understand about husbands. Mine was in
sales and does not promote me at all!!!
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Message 5
From: "amanda yopp"
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 10:26:01 -0600
Subject: [Baren 26838] Re: Why frame?
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All this talk about framing has got me thinking that maybe I should get back
into it. I actually love framing... or maybe I love teaching people to
Shireen, you are right about being specific- also make sure you see the
designer or framer write what you want down in front of you. I once had a
designer forget to include the particular mounting technique needed for a
piece. It was a poster but apparently a very expensive Star Wars poster
with real signatures on it. I was the person who dry mounted it to a piece
of acid free foam core and the customer was pretty mad. We did huge amounts
of framing and it was a poster so I assumed it needed to be drymounted. So
be specific and make sure they write it down.
Tom, there are lots of archival materials that help prevent mat burn and
fading. Of course the most important thing is to keep the print out of the
sunlight or bright rooms. But there are special types of glass that have UV
protection and prevent the rays from getting into the area between the print
and the glass. I saw this glass display at Aaron Brothers that showed the
difference between two types of glass. Both were UV protected but one was
crystal clear. It was beautiful. No greenish tint. No glare. No
fuzziness. I actually thought there wasn't any glass there. Amazing! And
expensive. But its out there. I have a couple of prints in a drawer that I
haven't framed because my walls are completely covered with art. But when
we upgrade to a larger house, I think I will use that beautiful glass for
framing those prints. I want to be able to see every detail in them and
hate that they are stuck in a drawer.

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Message 6
From: "Bea Gold"
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:10:08 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26839] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923
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Actually I have always carried wood and tools with me in my luggage when
traveling with no problems - this trip is different though I go right on to
a ship and that's where the problem is. No dangerous tools for old ladies!
Who knows who I might attack.
So I finished my cut for "Pets" but am not sure about whether or not I'll
take my printing materials. I'm going to do a test run and see how I feel.
I want to thank everyone for the wonderful monkeys and roosters flying into
my house. I love the overlap so thank you slower ones. Bea Gold
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Message 7
From: "Maria Diener (aka Arango)"
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 09:59:37 -0800
Subject: [Baren 26840] RE: Why frame?
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I totally agree that prints look nicer without framing, especially hand-made
paper, but also engravings. But you can't make a living as an artist if you
don't sell stuff "ready to hang."

As for the expense of framing materials, I would recommend getting a
business license (I know, I know, another eeeeeeek!) and purchasing
wholesale. I now buy a case of 16x20 museum UV grade non-glare glass for
what I used to buy two sheets at the local art store. A case of 32x40 acid
free matboard for about what I used to buy 4 sheets. The mark-up on this
stuff is criminal.
I insist :-) the expense is minimal and the time investment, once you learn
the ropes, is not mentioning and well worth the savings. Framing is now the
least of my worries, just part of the whole wonderful adventure of being a
working artist. But to each his/her own, most definitely!

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Message 8
From: Aqua4tis #
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 13:08:35 EST
Subject: [Baren 26841] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923
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have a wonderful trip!!!
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Message 9
From: "Diane Cutter"
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 14:39:02 -0500
Subject: [Baren 26842] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923
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Great info here, Marilynn... My husband and I do a lot of traveling. I've
taken notes for future planning,

Diane... -- New oil paintings (calla lilies and abstracts) - internet artist community
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Message 10
From: b.patera #
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:50:28 +0000
Subject: [Baren 26843] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2923
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Have a great trip,even though you have to go disarmed! :-)

Barbara P.
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Message 11
From: FurryPressII #
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 19:21:00 EST
Subject: [Baren 26844] frames love um our hate um
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for my own work i like hand made and carved frames. I guess for other
peoples work i would use gallery frames the reason being i think of my own
frames as part of the piece and for someone elses art to help protect it. for
my own work i don't like standard frames for prints i find them rather boring.

john center
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Message 12
From: "amanda yopp"
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 18:53:10 -0600
Subject: [Baren 26845] RE: frames love um our hate um
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John- I think your work is beautiful anyway, but do you think your handmade
frames help you sell the prints? Just curious. I haven't made any frames
in years, but would like to. Do you use a router? I am terrified of
routers. I have several woodworker friends & sculptures that have giant
scars from routers (and table saws- another machine I have difficulty with).
Anybody know of a router that is user friendly?

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Message 13
From: FurryPressII #
Date: Sat, 15 Jan 2005 19:57:10 EST
Subject: [Baren 26846] Re: frames love um our hate um
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you are supposed to sell these things?

john center
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Message 14
From: Legreenart #
Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 01:49:21 EST
Subject: [Baren 26847] Re: Baren Digest (old) V30 #2921 framing
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I can't afford to pay framers, and hate to frame. But we get strip frames
(they come in wood too) or simple readymade frames from laocal wholesalers or
Michaels and other craft stores and such on sale. Then spend on acid free
museum fomecore backing,, archival heat set removable hinges, and the ready made
spacing strips, and float almost everything instead of window matting.We can
keep the cost of most frames up tp 24X36 below $75..We usually replace the glass
that comes in the cheap frames with 1/8 in plexi from the local plastic
supply. which adds quite a bit to the price.