Today's postings

  1. [Baren 29036] Re: Woodblock prints on display in Springfield, MO ... (Dave Bull)
  2. [Baren 29037] Copyrights and Logos (Annie Bissett)
  3. [Baren 29038] Rooster roosts (Nancy Osadchuk)
  4. [Baren 29039] Re: Copyright RE: Baren Digest (old) V33 #3231 (ArtfulCarol)
  5. [Baren 29040] RE: Baren Digest (old) V33 #3232 ("marilynn smih")
  6. [Baren 29041] Re: Rooster prints (Julio Rodriguez)
  7. [Baren 29043] Rooster prints/New year coming (Mindy Wilson)
  8. [Baren 29044] Re: Rooster prints (Mindy Wilson)
  9. [Baren 29045] RE: New Baren Digest (Text) V33 #3232 (Oct 19, 2005) (Patty Phare-Camp)
  10. [Baren 29046] Marilynn Smith & logos (Clive Lewis)
  11. [Baren 29047] How to recognize prints (Colleen Corradi)
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Message 1
From: Dave Bull
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 22:27:11 +0900
Subject: [Baren 29036] Re: Woodblock prints on display in Springfield, MO ...
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Mike wrote:
> What a hoot to learn that she's become an assistant professor and the
> gallery director at Drury! I suppose I'll have to make some time to
> drive down to see her and the show!

Well, you know, as I read that story, and this comment in it:
>>> a local anonymous collector gave Miller free access to his or her
>>> collection.
... I was thinking to myself ... maybe that's Mike!

> Thanks so much for the heads-up!

Thanks to Google, and their fabulous new 'News Alerts' program!

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Message 2
From: Annie Bissett
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 10:17:38 -0400
Subject: [Baren 29037] Copyrights and Logos
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Hi Marilynn,

You wrote,
>[Mary] came up with a drawing she printed out on her computer. I
>put it into an oval design, made some changes, enlarged it to fit on a
>little larger than a half sheet of watercolor paper... do we both sign this
>piece, because it is a collaborative effort? And if so, how do the copy
>right laws work? This logo will be used for stationary, business cards and
>possibly clothing??? I would like to keep my watercolor and the right to use
>the design possibly for copy prints or a woodblock.

As a commercial illustrator, I've grappled with these issues for many years.
I still don't understand all of the complexities, but I know that what we
call "copyright" is actually a whole bundle of individual rights such as
right of reproduction, right to display, or right to create derivative
works. Each separate right or use belongs to the artist and can be
negotiated, transferred, sold or licensed as the artist sees fit. Ideas and
concepts are not copyrightable, only tangible images. By law, the artist
owns the image she creates as soon as it exists in tangible form.

So in your case, Mary's "concept" is not protected by copyright. Her
drawing, however, is. Your watercolor rendering will also be protected. In a
courtroom, I suppose that your watercolor might be considered a derivative
of Mary's drawing, but Mary gave you the right to create a derivative, so
your work will be protected by copyright law. Mary's role in this is
actually more like the role that an Art Director has in my business. The art
director often gives the illustrator a sketch to show what they're looking
for and the process is collaborative to some degree, but the art director is
never given credit on the final piece. The bottom line is this: all of it is
yours to negotiate with Mary. You two must decide how you want to parcel out
the rights and how you want to credit the work (concept by Mary;
illustration by Marilynn?). You may even want to put it in writing just for
clarity. It doesn't have to be formal or written in legalese - just a note
or an email that says "here's my understanding: I will keep the original
watercolor illustration but allow the club to use it for X,Y and Z. I will
retain the right to create prints, including a woodblock print." Something
like that.

Logos are tricky, because a logo needs to be used in many different ways,
some of which are difficult to foresee.

Sorry such a long post, but this is a hot topic in my field!

Annie B
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Message 3
From: Nancy Osadchuk
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:44:58 -0600
Subject: [Baren 29038] Rooster roosts
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Hi Elizabeth, I have just started making an accordian style 'book' to store my roosters. I will probably hinge them (with rice paste and archival paper). Previously I have made a portfolio to keep them in. My bookarts skills are even more amateur than my printmaking, but these wonderful prints deserve to be kept safe. I'm interested to know how others keep them as well.
Nancy O.
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Message 4
From: ArtfulCarol
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:48:48 EDT
Subject: [Baren 29039] Re: Copyright RE: Baren Digest (old) V33 #3231
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About the copyright issue:

My copyright case was written about :


I typed
Carol Lyons and copyright case
then pressed

Google found it.

Carol Lyons
Does it say that then the Mayor quit his day job, resigned as Mayor, sold
his house, and moved to Vero Beach?
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Message 5
From: Marilynn Smith
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 09:18:14 -0700
Subject: [Baren 29040] RE: Baren Digest (old) V33 #3232
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I have not done all the new years exchanges, sadly. But those I have done are mounted in a photo album, acid free. That way me and all my friends can just flip through the pages to see the cards. These little gems were a wonderful source when I did my demo on lady printmakers because they are small in size, so easy to pack and take for showing. I agree this year has been a wonderful group of prints. Looking forward to the year of the dog.
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Message 6
From: Julio Rodriguez
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 12:03:37 -0500
Subject: [Baren 29041] Re: Rooster prints
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Yes, western style is cool, actually any printmaking process is acceptable
except for computer printed images. I just realized we never updated the
Baren website with actual instructions but although the Chinese New Year
exchanges are very loose here are some general guidelines:

Size: 4 x 6", or thereabouts. Typical postcard size.
Medium: Whatever type of print you want to make, NOT just limited to
woodcuts! Some examples might include:
Chine Colle
Any combination of the above
Please stay away from Giclees or digitally printed images...
Sign-Ups: Sign-up will be online and open until December 21st, 2005 (Not
open yet - stay tune for updates)
Due Date: On or around March 15, 2006 seems resonable, don't you think? (*
actually we never had a hard due-date and postcards usually continue to
trickle in the entire year....)
Edition Size: Print a bunch. The list usually grows to about 40 - 60
participants. Besides, they are fun to send to family and friends, as
well... if you print and mail early, remember to check the list after
December 21st to make sure you send a print to late signups.
How to Mail: Most people stick 'em in an envelope, but sending them out
postcard style is fine if it can survive the trip, too.

Here are some pics from the large poster-like display that included all
the first-year dragon prints back in 2000, follow the links till you see
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Message 7
From: Mindy Wilson
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:10:39 -0600
Subject: [Baren 29043] Rooster prints/New year coming
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I am in LOVE! I adore the images posted from the 2005 New Year print
exchange. Fantastic!

I don't see anything stopping me from signing up for 2006. Even though I
will begin illustrating a book in just a few weeks. This New Year
project will be a blast. I have so many doggy scenes popping up in my
mind already.

We raise hounds for hunting and have 10 dogs. Amazing for some to
imagine a 150-160.00 dog food bill each month, lol. Even though we have
those beauties, I don't think I will choose a hound.

With this exchange, do we make these prints limited editions or is this
a personal choice?

Thanks Mindy Wilson

PS: A few people had mentioned that they couldn't find my Found In Japan
image that would be in the next Mcclains catalog so here it is, sorry it
took me too long to post a link to the print again.

Found In Japan :
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Message 8
From: Mindy Wilson
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 11:17:43 -0600
Subject: [Baren 29044] Re: Rooster prints
Reply: To [Baren] | Privately

Thanks for this info, it sounds great. It is so fun to have a project
in mind, I love the anticipation: choosing an image, the colors,
format...the smell of the ink, a little nick because I've
rushed....getting ink on a favorite shirt because I was too excited to
change, a smear or two across my face...seeing my image. SEEING
EVERYONE'S Images!! woo hoo

It's all good.
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Message 9
From: Patty Phare-Camp
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 15:55:35 -0400
Subject: [Baren 29045] RE: New Baren Digest (Text) V33 #3232 (Oct 19, 2005)
Reply: To [Baren] | Privately

Hello Bareners:

Regarding marilynn smih's question, are you an employee of the organization
the logo is for, or are they paying you. When it comes to logo design (or
any type of graphic/commercial design work [but especially logos]) the
artist(s) doesn't sign the work. Also ethically a logo should become the
property of the organization it was designed for as you are talking about
their image. Also theoretically the artist was the logo's designer, you
simply made edits.

As for Roosters; well I put mine in a book. each year I pick out a book
that I think will fit the card theme and then I use photo mounts to put
them on the page. Iwill mount interesting envelopes, stamps and artists
comments on the facing page or if there's room on the same page. I leave
the current year sitting around where anyone, including visiting artists,
can peruse them and ooh and aah over them. The books make it so easy to
leaf through and view that I will look at them again and again...

Patti P-C

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Message 10
From: Clive Lewis
Date: Wed, 19 Oct 2005 21:37:28 -0400
Subject: [Baren 29046] Marilynn Smith & logos
Reply: To [Baren] | Privately

You have a couple of issues here, Marilynn.

The downside of being a graphic artist is that you normally don't get
to sign your work. Logos on business cards and other business
stationary really shouldn't be signed because (a. it would need be very
tiny or (b. it would detract from the logo itself.

The big issue is about ownership of the logo. Do you and Mary own it or
does the Port of Nahcotta? Normally it hinges on payment; are they
paying outright for the logo or just for the right to use it? That
detail needs to be clarified and committed to paper before you go
further; signed copies of the agreement are vital, the person you dealt
with today may move on in a month or a year and you need to have the
details at hand.

I'm not sure that I want to touch the co-signing issue; that is
something between the two of you and will probably only be an issue if
you do a print or a shirt. I don't think there's a 'right' or 'wrong'
here, it's what the two of you are comfortable with. Again, getting it
down on paper is a must. When the Port of Nahcotta becomes a tourist
hot spot and you are cranking out t-shirts by the truck load one or the
other of you (probably her) might have second thoughts about what was
really agreed upon.

Good luck with it.

>This is not woodblock, but art related. I am working with Mary our
>port captain for the small port of Nahcotta. We are designing a logo.
>She came up with a drawing she printed out on her computer. I put it
>into an oval design, made some changes, enlarged it to fit on a little
>larger than a half sheet of watercolor paper. Hope to work today on
>this, but here is the question: do we both sign this piece, because it
>is a collaborative effort? And if so, how do the copy right laws work?
>This logo will be used for stationary, business cards and possibly
>clothing??? I would like to keep my watercolor and the right to use the
>desgn possibly for copy prints or a woodblock. They could have the
>right to use it for their stationary, etc. Anyone have experience with
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Message 11
From: "Colleen Corradi
Date: Thu, 20 Oct 2005 10:23:52 +0100 (GMT+01:00)
Subject: [Baren 29047] How to recognize prints
Reply: To [Baren] | Privately

I was wondering if there is a way to recognize re-strikes of old
japanese woodblocks.
I just bought a couple of prints, sold to me
through e-bay and certified to be kunichika and kunisada prints - I am
skeptical of their true nature, as I received them I clearly see that
the lines which are supposed to be black, are instead kind of greyish
so I believe they are restrikes. The paper is undoubtedly old.
anyone give me any information on how to determine whether a print is
real or not?

Colleen Corradi