Today's postings
- [Baren 31384] introduction and newbie question (David Harrison)
- [Baren 31385] Re: introduction and newbie question (Dan Dew)
- [Baren 31386] Re: introduction and newbie question (David Harrison)
- [Baren 31387] Re: introduction and newbie question (Barbara Mason)
- [Baren 31388] Re: introduction and newbie question (David Harrison)
- [Baren 31389] Re: introduction and newbie question (L Cass)
- [Baren 31390] Re: introduction and newbie question (David Harrison)
- [Baren 31391] Re: introduction and newbie question ("Maria Arango")
- [Baren 31392] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V36 #3564 (Aug 1, 2006) (CJChapel)
- [Baren 31393] Baren Member blogs: Update Notification (Blog Manager)
- [Baren 31394] Re: introduction and newbie question (David Harrison)
Message 1
From: David Harrison
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 15:24:16 +0100
Subject: [Baren 31384] introduction and newbie question
Send Message: To this poster
Hello,
As a newbie I ought to make an introduction, so here goes...I'm David
Harrison, a total neophyte living in Oxford, UK, and interested in
learning to create lino prints. This forum gets some glowing write-ups,
so I look forward to learning by being here, and getting to know you and
your work!
May I ask a dumb question? I'm dabbling with colour for the first time,
and would like to lighten up a few oil-based ink colours that are a few
notches too dark for my purposes. Is it better to thin the ink down a
little (presumably losing some of its stickum) or to mix it with a white
ink?
best regards,
David Harrison
As a newbie I ought to make an introduction, so here goes...I'm David
Harrison, a total neophyte living in Oxford, UK, and interested in
learning to create lino prints. This forum gets some glowing write-ups,
so I look forward to learning by being here, and getting to know you and
your work!
May I ask a dumb question? I'm dabbling with colour for the first time,
and would like to lighten up a few oil-based ink colours that are a few
notches too dark for my purposes. Is it better to thin the ink down a
little (presumably losing some of its stickum) or to mix it with a white
ink?
best regards,
David Harrison
Message 2
From: Dan Dew
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 10:32:07 -0400
Subject: [Baren 31385] Re: introduction and newbie question
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My 2 cents, use the thinner manufactured by the ink company you are
using. i.e. If it is a Graphic Chemical ink, use Graphic Chemical
Thinner specifically made for their inks. Experience has taught me
that interjecting unknown compounds from one ink company to another
ink company's ink can be a disaster.
using. i.e. If it is a Graphic Chemical ink, use Graphic Chemical
Thinner specifically made for their inks. Experience has taught me
that interjecting unknown compounds from one ink company to another
ink company's ink can be a disaster.
Message 3
From: David Harrison
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 16:12:30 +0100
Subject: [Baren 31386] Re: introduction and newbie question
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Dan Dew wrote:
> My 2 cents, use the thinner manufactured by the ink company you are
> using. i.e. If it is a Graphic Chemical ink, use Graphic Chemical
> Thinner specifically made for their inks. Experience has taught me that
> interjecting unknown compounds from one ink company to another ink
> company's ink can be a disaster.
Thanks, Dan. I'll see what thinners are in the same range then!
cheers,
David
> My 2 cents, use the thinner manufactured by the ink company you are
> using. i.e. If it is a Graphic Chemical ink, use Graphic Chemical
> Thinner specifically made for their inks. Experience has taught me that
> interjecting unknown compounds from one ink company to another ink
> company's ink can be a disaster.
Thanks, Dan. I'll see what thinners are in the same range then!
cheers,
David
Message 4
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 08:52:14 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 31387] Re: introduction and newbie question
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David,
What type of ink are you using? This will help us help you.
White will give you more opaque color and will change it quite a bit. You can use oil to make the ink more transparent, burnt plate oil works well. There is a product made by Graphic Chemical in Chicago www.graphicchemical.com that is called Setswell. If you mix this product with some transparent base (ink with no pigment) and add it to you ink, you will get a lighter and more transparent color. Use very thin layers of ink, it will look better and give you more control. Roll ink on, go back to the slab and roll again...it can take several minutes to get it evenly rolled up, work from the center out if you are using a small roller.
One of the things I learned at first on this site was that to get a color darker, one printed it twice with the same color. It was a startling revelation to me and at the time I had been a printmaker almost 20 years.
Here is a little ink lesson....it is all the same pigment, just different binders to hold the pigment.
Waterbased Japanese printmaking uses rice paste as a binder with pigment mixed in water with a tiny bit of alcohlo to hold the pigment in suspension in the water.
Watercolor uses gum arabic as a binder
Oil paint uses linseed oil as a binder
Etching ink uses linseed oil that has been processed longer (cooked) as a binder
Litho ink uses linseed oil that has been cook until it is varnish (this is why it strings out and is impossible to wipe off an etching plate.
Akua Kolor is a honey based ink with some gum in it, it is watersoluble for clean up but you should not dilute it with water for using it as the gum in it makes it stiffer with water added.
Speedball watersoluble block printing ink is like watercolor and uses gum arabic as a binder
Graphic Chemical water based block printing ink is watersoluble for clean up but does not work well with water added.
Dan Smith waterbased ink is similar but I like the Graphic Chemical ink better.
The types of ink in the UK might be different, we have members there who can answer your ink questions and I hope they will. Not everyone reads the baren daily so if no one answers from your side of the big pond, I can forward you their email addresses.
Best to you,
Barbara
>As a newbie I ought to make an introduction, so here goes...I'm David
>Harrison, a total neophyte living in Oxford, UK, and interested in
>learning to create lino prints. May I ask a dumb question? I'm dabbling with colour for the first time,
>and would like to lighten up a few oil-based ink colours that are a few
>notches too dark for my purposes. Is it better to thin the ink down a
>little (presumably losing some of its stickum) or to mix it with a white
>ink
What type of ink are you using? This will help us help you.
White will give you more opaque color and will change it quite a bit. You can use oil to make the ink more transparent, burnt plate oil works well. There is a product made by Graphic Chemical in Chicago www.graphicchemical.com that is called Setswell. If you mix this product with some transparent base (ink with no pigment) and add it to you ink, you will get a lighter and more transparent color. Use very thin layers of ink, it will look better and give you more control. Roll ink on, go back to the slab and roll again...it can take several minutes to get it evenly rolled up, work from the center out if you are using a small roller.
One of the things I learned at first on this site was that to get a color darker, one printed it twice with the same color. It was a startling revelation to me and at the time I had been a printmaker almost 20 years.
Here is a little ink lesson....it is all the same pigment, just different binders to hold the pigment.
Waterbased Japanese printmaking uses rice paste as a binder with pigment mixed in water with a tiny bit of alcohlo to hold the pigment in suspension in the water.
Watercolor uses gum arabic as a binder
Oil paint uses linseed oil as a binder
Etching ink uses linseed oil that has been processed longer (cooked) as a binder
Litho ink uses linseed oil that has been cook until it is varnish (this is why it strings out and is impossible to wipe off an etching plate.
Akua Kolor is a honey based ink with some gum in it, it is watersoluble for clean up but you should not dilute it with water for using it as the gum in it makes it stiffer with water added.
Speedball watersoluble block printing ink is like watercolor and uses gum arabic as a binder
Graphic Chemical water based block printing ink is watersoluble for clean up but does not work well with water added.
Dan Smith waterbased ink is similar but I like the Graphic Chemical ink better.
The types of ink in the UK might be different, we have members there who can answer your ink questions and I hope they will. Not everyone reads the baren daily so if no one answers from your side of the big pond, I can forward you their email addresses.
Best to you,
Barbara
>As a newbie I ought to make an introduction, so here goes...I'm David
>Harrison, a total neophyte living in Oxford, UK, and interested in
>learning to create lino prints. May I ask a dumb question? I'm dabbling with colour for the first time,
>and would like to lighten up a few oil-based ink colours that are a few
>notches too dark for my purposes. Is it better to thin the ink down a
>little (presumably losing some of its stickum) or to mix it with a white
>ink
Message 5
From: David Harrison
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 17:03:33 +0100
Subject: [Baren 31388] Re: introduction and newbie question
Send Message: To this poster
Barbara Mason wrote:
> David, What type of ink are you using? This will help us help you.
> The types of ink in the UK might be different, we have members there
> who can answer your ink questions and I hope they will. Not everyone
> reads the baren daily so if no one answers from your side of the big
> pond, I can forward you their email addresses. Best to you, Barbara
Hi Barbara,
Thanks for the very useful information! Duly printed for later re-reading...
I'm using a UK make: Lawrence's linseed oil based ink. So I guess that
means that their own-brand extender is linseed oil, maybe with some
other usefuls mixed in.
The Lawrence store also sells the Graphic Chemical inks too. How well
would you say they compare to their oil-based cousins?
Very interesting to read about darkening using layers of ink. I'll give
that a try this evening.
all the best,
David
> David, What type of ink are you using? This will help us help you.
> The types of ink in the UK might be different, we have members there
> who can answer your ink questions and I hope they will. Not everyone
> reads the baren daily so if no one answers from your side of the big
> pond, I can forward you their email addresses. Best to you, Barbara
Hi Barbara,
Thanks for the very useful information! Duly printed for later re-reading...
I'm using a UK make: Lawrence's linseed oil based ink. So I guess that
means that their own-brand extender is linseed oil, maybe with some
other usefuls mixed in.
The Lawrence store also sells the Graphic Chemical inks too. How well
would you say they compare to their oil-based cousins?
Very interesting to read about darkening using layers of ink. I'll give
that a try this evening.
all the best,
David
Message 6
From: L Cass
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 13:00:05 -0400
Subject: [Baren 31389] Re: introduction and newbie question
Send Message: To this poster
David -
I've used Lawrence's oily inks when in the UK- and have found a good
equivalent to oil based inks here in Canada, using Graphic Chemical's
water based
inks with their watersoluble vechicule (they are rich oily feeling
inks and when the ink has dried I'm able to do handcolouring with
watercolours - no bleeding
which is quite amazing) it's very convenient to be able to clean up
with water and dish detergent - one must be careful tho' to quickly
and completely
clean rollers as the inks are quite adherent. So, go for them -
bw
Louise C.
Message 7
From: David Harrison
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 2006 18:04:11 +0100
Subject: [Baren 31390] Re: introduction and newbie question
Send Message: To this poster
L Cass wrote:
>
> David -
> I've used Lawrence's oily inks when in the UK- and have found a good
> equivalent to oil based inks here in Canada, using Graphic Chemical's
> water based
> inks with their watersoluble vechicule (they are rich oily feeling inks
> and when the ink has dried I'm able to do handcolouring with
> watercolours - no bleeding
> which is quite amazing) it's very convenient to be able to clean up with
> water and dish detergent - one must be careful tho' to quickly and
> completely
> clean rollers as the inks are quite adherent. So, go for them -
> bw
> Louise C.
Louise,
Thanks for the tip -- that should save me a bundle!
all the best,
David
>
> David -
> I've used Lawrence's oily inks when in the UK- and have found a good
> equivalent to oil based inks here in Canada, using Graphic Chemical's
> water based
> inks with their watersoluble vechicule (they are rich oily feeling inks
> and when the ink has dried I'm able to do handcolouring with
> watercolours - no bleeding
> which is quite amazing) it's very convenient to be able to clean up with
> water and dish detergent - one must be careful tho' to quickly and
> completely
> clean rollers as the inks are quite adherent. So, go for them -
> bw
> Louise C.
Louise,
Thanks for the tip -- that should save me a bundle!
all the best,
David
Message 8
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 10:03:20 -0700
Subject: [Baren 31391] Re: introduction and newbie question
Send Message: To this poster
David, it depends on what you mean by lightening?
Speaking strictly for the oily folk...If you are wanting a more transparent
"version" of the color in the can, then an additive is the solution. The
transparent base works well. Setswell compound restores the tack but also
makes inks duller, which is desired in some cases. The main purpose of
setswell is to leave inks "open" to additional layers without causing inks
to "shut down" and thus create a shiny surface.
If you want a desaturated version of the color in the can, then adding white
will give you an opaque "lighter" color. Just remember that it is tougher to
make a color more transparent when white has been added because white is
very opaque. A workaround is to add process white, which will lighten your
color and allow it to remain a bit more transparent.
When mixing inks with white, always add a little tiny bit of color to the
white until you get familiar to the tinting strength of each color.
You might also want to try to lighten colors with a bright opaque lighter
color to retain richness of hue, for example, lighten a sienna or umber with
red, yellow or orange; lighten a deep green with yellow and/or white;
lighten a red with orange/yellow/white; etc. Make a mess, it's fun.
Daniel Smith, Lawrence and Graphic Chemical additives are pretty much
interchangeable, as is Rembrandt or Handschy sp? (my fav brand!). I would
still recommend using the brand of whatever ink you are buying, but in a
pinch...
For waterbased inks (which don't smell nearly as rich :-) I use the
appropriate transparent base for the brand. I just really have not found a
water based ink that flows as richly as oil based, although Graphic
Chemical's latest formulas are very enticing. I live in single digit
humidity most of the year, so water based inks tend to separate about 2
weeks after I buy them and I spend a good bit of my time "kneading" to bring
them back to life.
Again, start with the transparent base and add in your color until you are
satisfied.
After mixing a little, get your fingers dirty and dab a spread of a little
of the color on a scrap of your target paper to see what it will look like
printed. Use very little on the tip of your finger and spread the color.
I hope this all helps. There is some discussion of additives (in reference
to metallic inks) on my website:
http://1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/metallicink.html
Welcome to the forum!
Maria
Maria Arango
www.1000woodcuts.com
Speaking strictly for the oily folk...If you are wanting a more transparent
"version" of the color in the can, then an additive is the solution. The
transparent base works well. Setswell compound restores the tack but also
makes inks duller, which is desired in some cases. The main purpose of
setswell is to leave inks "open" to additional layers without causing inks
to "shut down" and thus create a shiny surface.
If you want a desaturated version of the color in the can, then adding white
will give you an opaque "lighter" color. Just remember that it is tougher to
make a color more transparent when white has been added because white is
very opaque. A workaround is to add process white, which will lighten your
color and allow it to remain a bit more transparent.
When mixing inks with white, always add a little tiny bit of color to the
white until you get familiar to the tinting strength of each color.
You might also want to try to lighten colors with a bright opaque lighter
color to retain richness of hue, for example, lighten a sienna or umber with
red, yellow or orange; lighten a deep green with yellow and/or white;
lighten a red with orange/yellow/white; etc. Make a mess, it's fun.
Daniel Smith, Lawrence and Graphic Chemical additives are pretty much
interchangeable, as is Rembrandt or Handschy sp? (my fav brand!). I would
still recommend using the brand of whatever ink you are buying, but in a
pinch...
For waterbased inks (which don't smell nearly as rich :-) I use the
appropriate transparent base for the brand. I just really have not found a
water based ink that flows as richly as oil based, although Graphic
Chemical's latest formulas are very enticing. I live in single digit
humidity most of the year, so water based inks tend to separate about 2
weeks after I buy them and I spend a good bit of my time "kneading" to bring
them back to life.
Again, start with the transparent base and add in your color until you are
satisfied.
After mixing a little, get your fingers dirty and dab a spread of a little
of the color on a scrap of your target paper to see what it will look like
printed. Use very little on the tip of your finger and spread the color.
I hope this all helps. There is some discussion of additives (in reference
to metallic inks) on my website:
http://1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/metallicink.html
Welcome to the forum!
Maria
Maria Arango
www.1000woodcuts.com
Message 9
From: CJChapel
Date: Tue, 1 Aug 2006 11:20:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 31392] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V36 #3564 (Aug 1, 2006)
Send Message: To this poster
Mike, Thank you so much for posting the URL of Duane
Keiser. I poured a cup and sat right there and watched
the videos. Just terrific.
C.
Imagination makes you see all sorts of things.
Georgia O'Keeffe
you are invited to visit http://www.carolchapel.com
Keiser. I poured a cup and sat right there and watched
the videos. Just terrific.
C.
Imagination makes you see all sorts of things.
Georgia O'Keeffe
you are invited to visit http://www.carolchapel.com
Message 10
From: Blog Manager
Date: 2 Aug 2006 03:55:49 -0000
Subject: [Baren 31393] Baren Member blogs: Update Notification
Send Message: To this poster
This is an automatic update message being sent to [Baren] by the forum blog software.
The following new entries were found on the listed printmaker's websites during the past 24 hours. (21 sites checked, five minutes before midnight Eastern time)
*****************
Site Name: David Bull, Woodblock Printmaker
Item: 'Hyakunin Issho' Newsletter: Summer issue uploaded
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/hyaku-nin-issho/2006/summer/64.html
*****************
Site Name: Woodblock Dreams
Author: Annie B
Item: Lots of Little Digs
http://woodblockdreams.blogspot.com/2006/08/lots-of-little-digs.html
*****************
Site Name: Printmakingblog
Author: Printblog
Item: VACATION or BUSINESS
http://printmakersmaterials.blogspot.com/2006/08/vacation-or-business.html
*****************
[Baren] members: if you have a printmaking blog (or a website with a published ATOM feed), and wish it to be included in this daily checklist, please write to the Baren Blog Manager at:
http://barenforum.org/contact_baren.php
For reference, sites/blogs currently being checked are:
http://barenforum.org/blog
http://woodblock.com
http://woodblockdreams.blogspot.com
http://studiodiary.blogspot.com
http://larimerart.blogspot.com
http://artflights.blogspot.com
http://printmakersmaterials.blogspot.com
http://mlyon.com/blog
http://room535.blogspot.com
http://mleeprints.blogspot.com
http://snowgum.blogspot.com
http://onthisblock.blogspot.com
http://pressing-issues.blogspot.com
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
http://theitinerantartist.blogspot.com
http://PLawing-Printmaker.blogspot.com
http://readdevine.blogspot.com
http://mokuhankan.com/conversations
http://mokuhankan.com
http://belindadelpesco.blogspot.com
http://vizart.blogspot.com
The following new entries were found on the listed printmaker's websites during the past 24 hours. (21 sites checked, five minutes before midnight Eastern time)
*****************
Site Name: David Bull, Woodblock Printmaker
Item: 'Hyakunin Issho' Newsletter: Summer issue uploaded
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/hyaku-nin-issho/2006/summer/64.html
*****************
Site Name: Woodblock Dreams
Author: Annie B
Item: Lots of Little Digs
http://woodblockdreams.blogspot.com/2006/08/lots-of-little-digs.html
*****************
Site Name: Printmakingblog
Author: Printblog
Item: VACATION or BUSINESS
http://printmakersmaterials.blogspot.com/2006/08/vacation-or-business.html
*****************
[Baren] members: if you have a printmaking blog (or a website with a published ATOM feed), and wish it to be included in this daily checklist, please write to the Baren Blog Manager at:
http://barenforum.org/contact_baren.php
For reference, sites/blogs currently being checked are:
http://barenforum.org/blog
http://woodblock.com
http://woodblockdreams.blogspot.com
http://studiodiary.blogspot.com
http://larimerart.blogspot.com
http://artflights.blogspot.com
http://printmakersmaterials.blogspot.com
http://mlyon.com/blog
http://room535.blogspot.com
http://mleeprints.blogspot.com
http://snowgum.blogspot.com
http://onthisblock.blogspot.com
http://pressing-issues.blogspot.com
http://www.1000woodcuts.com
http://theitinerantartist.blogspot.com
http://PLawing-Printmaker.blogspot.com
http://readdevine.blogspot.com
http://mokuhankan.com/conversations
http://mokuhankan.com
http://belindadelpesco.blogspot.com
http://vizart.blogspot.com
Message 11
From: David Harrison
Date: Wed, 02 Aug 2006 09:40:11 +0100
Subject: [Baren 31394] Re: introduction and newbie question
Send Message: To this poster
Maria Arango wrote:
> I hope this all helps. There is some discussion of additives (in reference
> to metallic inks) on my website:
> http://1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/metallicink.html
>
> Welcome to the forum!
> Maria
Many thanks, Maria! Again, printed for re-reading later on...
What a great forum this is -- all the advice makes the learning curve
much easier to climb :-)
all the best,
David
> I hope this all helps. There is some discussion of additives (in reference
> to metallic inks) on my website:
> http://1000woodcuts.com/Studionotes/metallicink.html
>
> Welcome to the forum!
> Maria
Many thanks, Maria! Again, printed for re-reading later on...
What a great forum this is -- all the advice makes the learning curve
much easier to climb :-)
all the best,
David