Today's postings

  1. [Baren 36398] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V44 #4461 (Aug 6, 2008) (Scholes Graham)
  2. [Baren 36399] Speedball.... yuk. (Scholes Graham)
  3. [Baren 36400] Re: Speedball.... yuk. (Marissa)
  4. [Baren 36401] Re: Guerra Pigments (Annie Bissett)
  5. [Baren 36402] Re: Speedball.... yuk. (ArtfulCarol # aol.com)
  6. [Baren 36403] Re: cutting paper and deckling ("Ellen Shipley")
  7. [Baren 36404] Re: Speedball.... yuk. ("Ellen Shipley")
  8. [Baren 36405] Re: Speedball.... yuk. (Marissa)
  9. [Baren 36406] Re: Guerra Pigments (Scholes Graham)
  10. [Baren 36407] Re: Speedball vs other inks ("Lee Churchill")
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Message 1
From: Scholes Graham
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:13:49 -0700
Subject: [Baren 36398] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V44 #4461 (Aug 6, 2008)
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Hi Lynn....
I have used my Logan that is perfect for that purpose....
It was when I used the drywall corner in the Logan that gave me such
wonderful results on the deckling....

I am trying to figure out how to get a movie clip of the device to the
group....
I am maxed out on my site.... Hmmmmmm
I will see if I can make a small enough clip to send to those that
would like to see in living colour talkies what I am suggesting.
Let me know personally if you would like a clip at graham@woodblockart.ca

Cheers,
Graham
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Message 2
From: Scholes Graham
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:15:17 -0700
Subject: [Baren 36399] Speedball.... yuk.
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I sure asked the right question a week ago about Speedball ....
I am with you here Sharri. Your closing statement is on the money.

Speedball inks are cheap because they are cheaply made. It is because
they are, as stated .... low level of pigment colour, and the high
level content of the white stuff.... I call it chalk as it is the
chalky appearance .... just as Grumbacher watercolours have, which
turn me off. ... This chalk stuff is cheaper than the pigment stuff
thus making for a lower price. I donít know that volume of production
would be a factor.... I should think that the productions figures
would be a trade secret....

Mould... well that is another subject some day. I can make some
suggestions.

Cheers,
Graham
www.woodblockart.ca
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Message 3
From: Marissa
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:18:37 -0400
Subject: [Baren 36400] Re: Speedball.... yuk.
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I too was called an ink snob a few years ago because of my extreme distaste
for Speedball water based ink. And my reasons are exactly the same as yours
so it can't be in both of our heads! (though I find that GC ink dries on the
slab faster than DS so I prefer DS)
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Message 4
From: Annie Bissett
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:20:50 -0400
Subject: [Baren 36401] Re: Guerra Pigments
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Wow, the Digests are flying through cyberspace at an ever -increasing
rate! Thanks for all the hard work, Gayle. And sorry for adding to
the pile!

Diane, thanks for the link to Herschel Logan. I'd never seen his work
before.

Graham, I usually order from Art Guerra online, but I did speak to
him on the phone once and he was very knowledgeable and informative.
No problem getting hold of him. There are some articles and an
interview on Art's site http://www.guerrapaint.com/intro.html where
he talks about how he got involved in his pigment obsession. It takes
all kinds, and I'm glad for that :)

Annie
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Message 5
From: ArtfulCarol # aol.com
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 15:22:38 EDT
Subject: [Baren 36402] Re: Speedball.... yuk.
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All you folks have convinced me to get Speedball out of here and
concentrate my experiments with the other inks!!
Carol Lyons
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Message 6
From: "Ellen Shipley"
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:24:01 -0700
Subject: [Baren 36403] Re: cutting paper and deckling
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No! these are women's tools! (but I let him use them).
Terry

Oh, I so love that! ;-D

Ellen

-(>-----~
Ellen Shipley
Trompt As Writ
~-----
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Message 7
From: "Ellen Shipley"
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 12:59:58 -0700
Subject: [Baren 36404] Re: Speedball.... yuk.
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I learned with oil based inks, so I'm still feeling my way along with the water based inks. My biggest hurdle is the quick drying on the slab. Are there ways around that?

I'm using Daniel Smith, and I've tried adding transparent medium and ink retarder and water, in various combinations. Nothing has done the trick to my satisfaction. I'm thinking it will always fall short in comparison with oil based inks, so I may have to get used to it. But is there something else to try?

Thanx,
Ellen

-(>-----~
Ellen Shipley
Trompt As Writ
~-----
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Message 8
From: Marissa
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 16:04:52 -0400
Subject: [Baren 36405] Re: Speedball.... yuk.
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I'm no help as I use oil based exclusively. I moved from Speedball
waterbased to oil based DS cleaned up with veg oil.

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Message 9
From: Scholes Graham
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 13:08:01 -0700
Subject: [Baren 36406] Re: Guerra Pigments
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Thanks Annie....
Will try them as my Victoria supplier, who supplied same kind of
product, went the way of the dodo bird....

Regards
Graham
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Message 10
From: "Lee Churchill"
Date: Wed, 6 Aug 2008 14:14:36 -0600
Subject: [Baren 36407] Re: Speedball vs other inks
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Hi Charles,

You are correct that bad framing can cause other (and not just
waterbased) items to stick to glazing but, other than silver gelatin
photos; I've never seen materials stick with the tenacity of Speedball
waterbased ink. And actually many many types of 'rewettable' inks can be
washed without any damage occurring, if you have the right equipment
and knowledge, and in fact it is done to remove damage (stains,
yellowing, etc). As a conservator, I have washed any number of
wateroclours, moku hanga prints, carbon ink drawings, etc. Gouche is
more difficult but it is often possible nonetheless. Speedball is
hopeless. As far as I can tell there is something besides Gum Arabic (or
maybe it is too low a concentration of...) in the ink that makes it so
soluble, the foaming action when it's washed makes me think there is
definitely an excess of surfactant included. Gum Arabic is actually
light sensitive and becomes less soluble, due to crosslinking, on
exposure to light, 'hardening' the paint/ink - this is why it is used
for some alternative photo development processes - like gum bichromate
printing.


For fading, the actual pigments are responsible for whether something
will fade but another part of the light fastness of a pigment also
depends on the volume of pigment in the ink - Speedball consistently has
an extremely low pigment volume, ergo any degree of fading is more
noticeable, and as you mentioned the large volume of Titanium white
means that the print is bound to become chalky with any degree of fading
in the coloured pigment componant.



I would disagree that "There is nothing inherently wrong with the
Speedball inks once you understand their properties." I think that
knowing their properties makes them inherently wrong, except for what
they are advertised for - as a training tools for beginner students who
do not expect the work they are doing to last or be collected. In fact I
think that most students I know who have tried them have been so
frustrated and disliked the results so much that they were inclined to
give up printmaking altogether.



As for the mould problems with Speedball, you are right properly kept
prints shouldn't mould but there are materials that are much more likely
to mould than others given half a chance, a peach will mould more so and
faster than an apple for example. Speedball more so than other inks.
The mould I have seen was not from or on the paper, it was decidedly
only on the ink areas of the prints, which were unglazed, and I was
living in conditions where the humidity was rarely up to 50% and often
down below 10% (Edmonton, Alberta, Canada). And foxing is such a
complex issue (and it's not always mould) that to start discussing it
would take days!



I fully acknowledge that the problems that have been discussed aren't
limited to Speedball users, but I would say they are more likely,
otherwise Speedball wouldn't have the bad reputation it has. All the
precautions in the world won't keep poor materials from reacting poorly;
it will only delay the inevitable.

Cheers,

Lee.