Today's postings

  1. [Baren 36456] inks (dadi #
  2. [Baren 36457] Scrolls Prints and Frames (Tom Kristensen)
  3. [Baren 36458] East vs West (Tom Kristensen)
  4. [Baren 36459] Re: question on registration for Western style printing ("")
  5. [Baren 36460] Re: East vs West (Scholes Graham)
  6. [Baren 36461] Re: printers ink (Scholes Graham)
  7. [Baren 36462] Administrative message re quoting, etc. (Dave Bull)
  8. [Baren 36463] Re: printers ink (Charles Morgan)
  9. [Baren 36464] Re: question on registration for Western style printing ("Amanda Miller")
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Message 1
From: dadi #
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:39:08 -0400
Subject: [Baren 36456] inks
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I have used water soluable Daniel Smith inks and liked them but then tried akua kolor inks. I like them because they never dry before they are applied to the paper and they are mostly translucent. I usually use Daniel Smith black because it does cover most other inks. akua kolor takes time to get used to. I use a brayer to apply it and sometimes it is almost to slippery to roll. I use a press to print and usually use plywood, cherry? and European paper.

Dale Phelps, Waterloo , IA
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Message 2
From: Tom Kristensen
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 08:41:04 +1000
Subject: [Baren 36457] Scrolls Prints and Frames
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Benny asked for more information on the display of Japanese prints.

In 2006 David Bull produced a lavish woodblock scroll, and he had to
go to China to find the artisans who were able to mount the work. It
seems that the skills required to make these elaborate works might
have vanished from Japan.

Here is a link to a page on David Bull's which details
making the scroll print with a fantastic photo essay showing how the
print was made and then mounted:

The bulk of Japanese scrolls that are still in circulation are one-
off paintings, most common are sumi paintings on paper. Prints were
seen as the poor cousins to the original painting, they hardly
qualified as real art, so why go to the expense of mounting a cheap
reproduction. However, the long thin format of hashira-e most common
from the 18th century were sometimes given a scroll mounting. These
"pillar prints" were suited for the particular narrow hanging space
found in traditional Japanese architecture. In the 19th century
vertical diptychs were also sometimes mounted as scrolls .

Here is a link to an impressive collection of scrolls for sale at
Saru Gallery, click through to see the mounting:

Despite the low status of prints there is no doubt that they were
extremely popular and I am sure many were pinned to the walls as
decoration. When they became too grubby or outdated they might have
been tossed, or used as wrapping, and replaced with something fresh.
Other ephemeral prints were made as flyers and included in packaging.
The popularity of prints is attested to by the sheer size of the
print industry. Like the modern advertising industry the prints were
made to promote all manner of cultural activities, theatre,
restaurants, merchants, wars etc. But there were also a huge number
of prints made to simply appeal to collectors. You can see how many
designs were made in serial fashion to encourage the fetish of

The most common method of collecting prints was putting them in
albums, often in a Leporello album - a kind of zigzag album with
prints on both sides. these albums were of a fixed size so prints
were usually trimmed to fit. Art dealers would later buy these albums
and dissect them for sale. These prints usually appear on the market
still backed with the album page.

All that said, the Japanese did have picture frames. How far back
these frames go I am not sure, but they are so neatly resolved that I
suspect that they are an old innovation. Prints from the middle of
the last century are sometimes sold in their original Japanese frame.
These frames have a pane of glass - a relatively recent invention -
a frame and a removable backing board. The board is held in place by
two slats that swivel into slots at the back of the frame, this has
the effect of clamping the print in place. Best of all the print can
be easily removed and another put in its place. Prints should not
spend too long on the wall.

Tom in Australia
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Message 3
From: Tom Kristensen
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 09:26:18 +1000
Subject: [Baren 36458] East vs West
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I can't let this claim by Graham go unchallenged (he likes a

"the Japanese perfected the technique of transparent
waterbase pigments.... moka hanga .... ( It was not invented by the
Japanese, but by a person from Belgium ( .... Jost de Negker, active
in Antwerp 1508-1544, is believed to be the inventor of the colored
woodcut) .... "

Scholarship on Chinese printmaking has not been well promoted in the
west but it seems that the Chinese can claim to have invented multi-
coloured woodblock printing long before the Belgiums and before
Japan. Cloth was printed in three colours in the Han dynasty (206 BCE
- 220) There are surviving texts printed on paper in black and red
dating from 1341.

Tom, in the Asia Pacific region
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Message 4
From: ""
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 20:17:43 -0400
Subject: [Baren 36459] Re: question on registration for Western style printing
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>...using the pins for registration.
>You haven't mentioned the paper you are using. (...and are you
>printing on dampened paper? I expect that you are.)
>Most 'western' papers (BFK, Arches, etc.) have a lot of stretch in
>them, and putting them through your rollers blank (calendaring them)
>will allow them to get the stretch part taken care of before they
>touch ink.

I don't dampen the paper for multiple colours, Sharon, it tends to
weaken the area around the holes, they get larger which then throws
the register out of whack. I do dampen it for good solid blacks on
prints; it's wonderful. I use all sorts of paper, western, Japanese,
machine made & hand made; I prefer machine made western papers for
large prints though, they are more stable.

I know that the paper will stretch a lot if you are pushing parallel
to the grain; it's not so bad when you go with the grain. I try to
get the perfect amount of ink with just the right viscosity so that
there isn't a lot of pressure on the paper; that's the way a
Letterpress operator taught me. It keeps the fine grooves from
plugging in and the fine 'ridges' from flattening out and/or breaking
off. I'm going to try your method the next time I get a stretchy
paper though. it sounds interesting. On occasion I've put a bit of
tape where I'm going to punch the holes to help strengthen thin
paper; it's a bit time consuming but it allows use of thinner stock.

Although I can see advantages to making one's own register pins as
Charles does but depending on your press the low profile of the
manufactured ones might be a big advantage. They last forever.


Clive Lewis
519 841-1785
Packaging Marketing Graphics
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Message 5
From: Scholes Graham
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:34:33 -0700
Subject: [Baren 36460] Re: East vs West
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I liken your feedback to education.... not controversy..... and yes I
like to push the minds of people...
Must be the teacher in me. I always have to remind myself.... you
can always tell a teacher.... but not much

Makes one wonder why some one has attributed the invention of colour
woodblocks to a Belgian.... ??? Darned if I know.
Hey dont shoot the messenger.

I would be very interested in where I can look up this information.
It does not fit with the feedback from the information from the
Victoria Art Gallery curator.

I guess I have to wonder it printing.... probably stamps done on cloth
considered equivalent to printing multi 10 to 30 colours on paper as
per moka hanga ?

Apparently garments were printed with wooden blocks in Eygpt 2000 BC
using black and colours. Yes I suppose two colour could be called
coloured printing.... how was it achieved? ... with wood stamps
pressed on the paper or visa versa. I would love to know.

This may be boring to some here so a private post might be in order.

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Message 6
From: Scholes Graham
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 17:50:56 -0700
Subject: [Baren 36461] Re: printers ink
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The closest place to get this ink is from USLitho in State of

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Message 7
From: Dave Bull
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2008 10:30:53 +0900
Subject: [Baren 36462] Administrative message re quoting, etc.
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Gayle asked:

> Bareners, it's exciting to see all the new postings as it makes the
> forum
> interesting. May I suggest that you not put long quotes within your
> messages.

Related to the very large volume of messages we are processing
recently, let me enlarge a bit on Gayle's point about quoting ... If
you understand how our system works, you can send more effective

Messages for the group are all processed by the Majordomo server here
in Japan at Asahi-net. We don't have any control over that processing,
and basically what comes out, is what you send. People who read [Baren]
a single message at a time, are reading what Majordomo sends.

Unfortunately, because - even with endless horsewhipping from
moderators over the years - people frequently include large amounts of
extraneous material in their posts, the Digests produced by Majordomo
are totally unreadable. If you are receiving the version labelled as:
Baren Digest (old)
... you know what I mean. It's not just from quote clippings - or the
inclusion of masses of HTML formatting - it's that people frequently
quote the _entire_ previous Digest. These old Digests are chaos.

To get around this, we have created our own _post-processing_ script
that runs on the website. This takes in copies of the
Majordomo individual messages, attempts to clean out as much of the
unwanted material as possible, and then packages them up into the
digest versions labelled as:
New Baren Digest : Text
New Baren Digest : HTML

Note: if you are still trying to read the old version, then get thee to
this page and change your subscription:

It works pretty well. But our script runs without human intervention -
of course - and has to make its own decisions on what to cut, and what
to leave. Most of the time it gets it pretty close, but sometimes it
misses the mark, and mangles the message.

Here's how you can help ensure your message gets through properly.

Send plain text rather than HTML. I know that many of you don't know
how to do that, so Mr. Digester is trained to convert it all to plain.
But errors will occur; to minimize them, send plain text.

- if you are a 'top-quoter' - with the quoted material appearing
_before_ your comments - then make sure that you start the quote on the
_very first line of your email_. Then trim trim trim, leaving only a
line or two that will let your readers know what you are referring to.
If you leave too much, you are in danger of having Mr. Digester take
out his knife, and he will slash blindly, no doubt removing much of
your own content.

- if you are a 'bottom-quoter', it's easier for Mr. Digester to know
where to operate. He simply kills the entire quote. This has saved us
_so much grief_, and cuts down the volume of message content by a huge

- if you are a 'mix and match' quoter - quoting and commenting, quoting
and commenting - you will need to know how to sneak past Mr. Digester's
knives. Here's how to do it:

1) Start your first quote on the _very first line of the post_. Keep it
very short. You can start with original content if you wish, no problem
there either.
2) Don't use HTML formatting to distinguish what is quote and what is
original. Mr. Digester removes _all_ such formatting, and your readers
won't know what is going on ...
3) For _embedded_ quote snippets, don't use the phrase "xxxx wrote:",
as this is one of the triggers that tells Mr. Digester where to wield his blade.
Change it to "xxx added:" or some other such phrase ...

If you follow these basic precepts, your message should go through cleanly.

Another quirk: avoid using the 'greater than' or 'less than' symbols in your
cute emoticons or your signature. Mr. Digester is trained to hunt down and kill
HTML formatting, and this will incorrectly trigger him to start chopping stuff away.

I'm sorry for seeming to be laying down 'rules' here, but this is all in a good
cause - our 'new' version Digests are very readable, and if you follow these
rules exactly, they will require a minimum of work from the archivist to prepare
for the website. And of course, your message will be understood.

Thanks for understanding ...

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Message 8
From: Charles Morgan
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 19:54:09 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: [Baren 36463] Re: printers ink
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Thanks, Graham. I will check it out.

Cheers ...... Charles
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Message 9
From: "Amanda Miller"
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 23:08:23 -0400
Subject: [Baren 36464] Re: question on registration for Western style printing
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The information on registration is very helpful. Yes, Barbara, I'm doing
woodblock printing. I hadn't realized you could use a kento when
printing with a press, so thank you. I'm not sure if I can trust myself to
keep a steady hand when placing the paper, but I'd like to give it a try.
For those using pins, do you stop the press before it goes over the pins, or
are they so low that it's not an issue? The idiot-proof method looks so
wonderfully simple, I couldn't resist picking up a hold-punch to give it a
try. I have the same question about this method--if my block and rails are
higher than the punch, I should be able to just roll right over it, right?
I'm mainly concerned because I don't want to damage the press, if that's