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Message 1
From: Linda Beeman
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 13:53:44 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36639] keeping paper damp
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Thank you everyone for the help. I would never have thought to put the paper in the freezer! I think humidity levels will be the hardest thing to work with. This last week humidity here (Michigan) was really low and now today it's about 80-90%. Then comes winter with the furnace on and no humidity to speak of at all. It will be a trick and a learning experience. I may have to get a humidifier.

Julio, thanks for the links. I totally forgot about the encyclopedia and then spent a long time reading most of it. I learned a lot more - like "flipping" the paper to keep the moisture uniform. That will really help with this next print.

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Message 2
From: Tiberiu Chelcea
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 14:45:24 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36640] Re: Sanding blocks & Printing with india ink
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Thanks everyone for the comments. I should have mentioned that I was using cherry (not sure what variety, bought a cherry shelf from a big chain hardware store and cut it in small pieces for experimentation). The un-sanded part was left as bought.

Dave, thank you for the suggestion with gum arabic, I will definitely try it. I've tried a few more prints, and got somewhat better results after being careful to brush the fine lines before printing, removing some of the pigment that accumulates there. I think part of my problem is that I'm exerting a lot of pressure when printing (the paper is clearly embossed afterwards) -- that's the only way I could get a good black coverage, but, the flip-side is that the paper can be pushed into fine lines and pick pigment. As for sanding the block, I confess I'm a bit confused on the difference between planning and sanding the block -- aren't they the same, maybe just done with different tools?

Eli, thanks for info about india inks. I am using this particular ink (Speedball Super Black) with pens like the ones here: http://www.artistcraftsman.com/servlet/the-25220/%235-ART-ARTIST-PEN/Detail , and there does not seem to be any clogging. I'm also wondering whether shellac-ing the block would not be a problem when printing japanese style, since the pigment would not stay on the block.

Graham, what do you mean by "with combination of oil and varnish for the last 600 grit"? Do I brush oil&varnish on the block and then sand it, or sand it and brush? For western-style printing, I'm usually covering the block with a coat of gesso -- but this method does not seem to work well (read horrible) with Japanese-style printing.

Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions (and the assurances about the difficulty of printing black).
Tibi

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Message 3
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:09:43 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36641] Re: Sanding blocks & Printing with india ink
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>As for sanding the block, I confess I'm a bit confused on the difference
>between planning and sanding the block -- aren't they the same, maybe just
>done with different tools?

Tibi, planing and sanding are different things. Planing wood cuts the fibers
clean (as long as the plane blade is sharp!) and leaves a glass-like
surface. Sanding splits the fibers, with each grit splitting a bit less, but
if you could look at the wood fibers with a microscope, you would see that
they are like hairs with split ends.
For oil-based work it doesn't matter all that much but for moku-hanga the
cut fibers will give more predictable results. However anyone can sand and
planing skillfully takes quite a bit of practice.

"For western-style printing, I'm usually covering the block with a coat of
gesso -- but this method does not seem to work well (read horrible) with
Japanese-style printing."

Why gesso, if I may ask? I would think that totally eliminates the nature of
the wood as it would clog the fibers and leave a smooth surface. If you
don't want any grain at all and like working with a perfectly smooth
surface, then linoleum might be a better choice.
Also, it seems like gesso would leave a pretty fragile surface coating that
could come off in printing. I dont varnish the blocks at all, to me any
coating that eliminates the nature of the wood is just negating the wood. I
oil with linseed oil after sanding with 400 grit. Many of my prints show the
natural wood grain in the background, but if I dont want that quality I
just over ink a bit.

Maria

O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
Maria Arango
http://1000woodcuts.com
http://artfestivalguide.info
O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O

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Message 4
From: Scholes Graham
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 15:19:56 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36642] Re: Sanding blocks & Printing with india ink
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Tiberiu Chelcea wrote:

> Thanks everyone for the comments. I should have mentioned that I was
> using cherry (not sure what variety, bought a cherry shelf from a
> big chain hardware store and cut it in small pieces for
> experimentation). The un-sanded part was left as bought.

Good that you are using cherry. This is a firm wood that takes a
good smooth finish. It also allows more detailed and delicate carving
that will not breakdown over a lot of burnishing. Basswood is
adequate and easier to carve.

> I've tried a few more prints, and got somewhat better results after
> being careful to brush the fine lines before printing, removing some
> of the pigment that accumulates there.

Be sure to brush the pigment on the with the direction of the fine
lines and not across them... this enables cleaner lines in the print.

> I think part of my problem is that I'm exerting a lot of pressure
> when printing (the paper is clearly embossed afterwards) --
> that's the only way I could get a good black coverage,

Two printings is the answer.....

> but, the flip-side is that the paper can be pushed into fine lines
> and pick pigment.

That is intaglio printing.

> As for sanding the block, I confess I'm a bit confused on the
> difference between planning and sanding the block -- aren't they the
> same, maybe just done with different tools?

No. Sanding is done with a grit paper and planing is done with a
sharp steel blade. Check this out on the web.

> I'm also wondering whether shellac-ing the block would not be a
> problem when printing japanese style, since the pigment would not
> stay on the block.

No problem... one thin coat only. If you put too much on, the
waterbase pigment will bead. You can easily remove excess by rubbing
the plate with menthol hydrate. It dissolves Shellac.

> Graham, what do you mean by "with combination of oil and varnish for
> the last 600 grit"? Do I brush oil&varnish on the block and then
> sand it, or sand it and brush?

I put the varnish/oil on with a cloth... then immediately I sand with
the 600 grit paper.... it is Black. You can purchase it at the
hardware store.

> For western-style printing, I'm usually covering the block with a
> coat of gesso -- but this method does not seem to work well (read
> horrible) with Japanese-style printing.

Experience is something you get when you experiment.

Regards
Graham

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Message 5
From: "rsimola # netzero.net"
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:06:23 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36643] What's it called?
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On my most recent block I wasn't happy with the way the design printed so I painted the carved areas
and then inked the surface of the cherry-wood block before running the block through the press, but how
do I label the prints? Block prints, intaglio, edition, monoprints, a goof and a mistake? The print is at
http://rsimola.blogspot.com

Robert Simola, Ph.D.
Chaucer collector, craftsman, gardener, grape grower . . . and retired teacher

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Message 6
From: "Mike Lyon"
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:10:55 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36644] Re: Sanding blocks & Printing with india ink
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You've already received several good replies, Tibi - one thing about oil
sanding, shellacing, gessoing, etc.

ALL these tend both to reduce the absorbency of the wood and to create a
film between the wood and the pigment - so they all have an effect on the
way the block prints. In printing with water-borne pigment (hanga), the
more absorbent the matrix (wood for 'us'), the deeper the printed color -
you can test this by taking a piece of uncarved wood and coating part of the
surface with shellac (or what have you). When the shellac is dry, dampen
the block and brush it up with color as usual and print - you will likely
see quite a pronounced difference between the printing of the shellacked and
unshellacked areas with the shellac producing a paler printing. You can
make striking 'woodcuts' this way (painting a design onto the surface of the
wood to reduce absorbency) without carving at all!


Many woods including cherry and basswood naturally print darker in some
areas and lighter in others (in furniture these more absorbent areas look
darker and are called 'blotches' - not the same as what we call blotches in
relief prints) - applying shellac to the wood fills those more-open areas
and makes the entire surface less absorbent and more uniform-printing so
some printers like to 'seal' their blocks (personally, though, I prefer
unsealed blocks) - the more finish you apply the less the 'wood' prints and
the more the 'finish' prints, of course, no matter whether it's shellac or
gesso or paint or whatever.


Dave mentioned his blocks are planed and I think they used to be planed -
but aren't they actually SANDED smooth underwater these days? Planing and
sanding both flatten the surface of the block and reduce surface texture -
unsanded and unplanned blocks have rougher surfaces and rough holds more
fluid and therefore prints darker (and blotchier) than smooth. Probably
shouldn't think 'right' or 'wrong' here, Tibi - think 'effect' - unsanded
and unplanned plywood can produce VERY interesting 'texture' in printing -
entirely different than the printing of the same block if it were smooth.
So it really depends on you and your image how you prepare your blocks,
right? SOME printers avoid 'smooth', going to some length to find or
produce very rough planks, wire-brushing surfaces, hammering, pounding with
rocks, colographically building very rough surfaces with materials like
crumpled aluminum foil, epoxy, concrete, plaster, lace, etc. etc. etc.


Black - for hanga, I prefer Sumi or other carbon black pigment. I don't
usually use paste with sumi - as everyone has already suggested, plan to
print several times to achieve black-blacks. Some sumi inks dry shiny when
applied heavily, some dry matte - sometimes it can be a nice effect to lay
down a color or gray first and then print black on top - you'll want to
experiment! It is NOT difficult to print black (in my opinion), just takes
care and several printings as with any area where you want in intense solid
color.


Mike


Mike Lyon
Kansas City, MO
http://mlyon.com

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Message 7
From: eli griggs
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 17:32:34 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36645] Re: Sanding blocks & Printing with india ink
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>Eli, thanks for info about india inks. I am using
>this particular ink (Speedball Super Black) with pens
>like the ones here:
>http://www.artistcraftsman.com/servlet/the-25220/%235-ART-ARTIST-PEN/Detail
>and there does not seem to be any clogging. I'm also
>wondering whether shellac-ing the block would not be a
>problem when printing japanese style, since the
>pigment would not stay on the block."

Tibi, these pins are simple dip nibs and are the
correct tool to use with India ink. The fountain pens
I am talking about carry their ink in small internal
reservers and are more complicated in their
construction; more mechanical like and dependent on a
free flowing ink . Here are some good examples.
http://www.esterbrook.net/j2.shtml

One added benefit to shellac on a block is that a
slightly thinned mix will help prevent small bits of
wood, such as when carving a thin line, from breaking
off or splintering as easily as without.

Cheers

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Message 8
From: Scholes Graham
Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2008 18:00:56 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36646] Re: Sanding blocks & Printing with india ink
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Hi Tibi.....

Having read Mike.... I want to emphasize that I apply very little
varnish/oil.... just enough to initially cover the area I am coating.
It is important that this sinks in to the wood during the sanding/
buffing with 600 grit. I want the wood to be prevalent for reaction to
the pigment. Whatever you use make sure it is very little and the
wood does not get coated so to speak. It should be noted I never use
shellac. The reason is that the oil (good quality tung, teak oil) acts
as a lubricant when carving. Some believe that the addition of this
might help strengthen the wood in and around the finely cut
sections.... That makes sense to me as the oil will prevent the wood
from softening with the water pigment.... which we know does happen.
There is no hard and fast rule.... we all have different ways of doing
the job... my way comes down the pipe from Noboru Sawai and Toshi
Yoshida.

It should be noted .... if I am going to want the grain of the wood to
dominate the print.... nothing, rien, niets, , nichts,
ziltch in the way of coating is applied. In this way I can get some
interesting effects....

Find the way you are comfortable with and go for it.

Regards
Graham

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