Today's postings

  1. [Baren 36836] Exchange 37a (Eileen Corder)
  2. [Baren 36837] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V44 #4522 (Sep 11, 2008) (cjchapel #
  3. [Baren 36838] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V44 #4522 (Sep 11, 2008) (Shawn + Elizabeth Newton)
  4. [Baren 36839] INks (Lee Churchill)
  5. [Baren 36840] Re: Oil-based inks and paper - technical question ("claudiacoonen")
  6. [Baren 36841] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V44 #4522 (Sep 11, 2008) ("Patricia B. Phare-Camp")
  7. [Baren 36842] Time (ArtSpotiB #
  8. [Baren 36843] workshop outline ("Maria Arango")
  9. [Baren 36844] Baren Member blogs: Update Notification (Blog Manager)
  10. [Baren 36845] Re: Wanda's Exchange (Jan Telfer)
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Message 1
From: Eileen Corder
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 15:14:20 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36836] Exchange 37a
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Thanks to everyone, Maria especially, for this fine exchange. Each print is
a window into unique way of seeing and I enjoy discovering each individual's
being. I am grateful to have been allowed to participate in this exchange.

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Message 2
From: cjchapel #
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:03:31 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36837] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V44 #4522 (Sep 11, 2008)
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Two quick thoughts on the archival theme.
I suspect the paper has more to do with how long a print will last
than the ink does. Would book papers have been sturdier than loose
sheets available to artists and printmakers? Or the other way around?
Just curious. Perhaps they were of equal quality.

And a little anecdote - Locally, in an adult ed. art course the
students started agonizing over if their works were archival. The
instructor said with a twinkle that she had yet to see anything that
needed to worry about being archival.

It does seem to me that our awareness of art materials being archival
has increased in even the last 20 years. I'm enjoying reading
everyone's input.
C. Chapel
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Message 3
From: Shawn + Elizabeth Newton
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 16:15:14 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36838] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V44 #4522 (Sep 11, 2008)
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i don't really worry about my work being archival. if i sell it or not. especially if i don't sell it b/c
if I'M not going to do anything with it, i don't care where it is in 20 years. except that it's kinda cool to
look back and say, wow, look what i made.

the only thing i want is that my paper is acid free. and all the cheap stuff is even acid free, so no problems there.

my 2 cents.

shawn newton
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Message 4
From: Lee Churchill
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 17:00:58 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36839] INks
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My much more long winded discussion on this didn't make it through the digest version yesterday, I'm not sure
whether it came through on the regular postings either. I've been having some trouble getting things to post
lately. But in short Charles is right - good paper, good ink, means that the prints will last a very long time.
Good inks have a very small amount of oil so they can't seep out and cause the break down that overly oily inks
(or those that have had extra oil added) do.
As for paper or canvas 'rotting' due to the oils, someone mentioned the right answer yesterday, it's not rot as
in active bacterial degradation or decomposition of the fibres, what happens is that the oils crosslink around
and with the fibres making the whole network brittle so that they break apart easily when stressed and end up
turning to dust.

(with my conservation hat on) Lee

The creative act is not performed by the artist alone; the spectator brings the work in contact with the external
world by deciphering and interpreting its inner qualifications and thus adds his contribution to the creative act.
(Marcel Duchamp)

>There was no sign of "rot" or any deterioration due to the inks. The pages were printed on both sides, and any such
>deterioration would have been readily apparent.

>I would suggest that if one selects the appropriate papers and appropriate inks, your prints will easily last twice
>your lifetime or more, and perhaps we can be satisfied with that.

>Cheers ........ Charles
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Message 5
From: "claudiacoonen"
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 18:46:44 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36840] Re: Oil-based inks and paper - technical question
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The subject is right on the mark for me. Right now at our local art center we have show from the THrivent Financial Collection of Religious Art
with 40 originals of Durer and Rembrandt.,,,,, as well as contemporary artists Artemio Rodriguez , Paul Mullowney and Jean Charlot. All of us marvel
at the perfect condition of these really old prints, and how they had it right!
claudia g. coonen
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Message 6
From: "Patricia B. Phare-Camp"
Date: Thu, 11 Sep 2008 19:22:18 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36841] Re: New Baren Digest (Text) V44 #4522 (Sep 11, 2008)
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when we talk of works done by the old masters we have to consider the
substrate! Some of you mentioned paper but I think we need to
investigate it more thoroughly. Most of those old masters used rag
papers or parchment, not wood pulp! I too have some wonderful old books
printed before the turn of the century and the pages/paper in those
books is soft and fluffy, feels almost like cloth, just like good
printmaking papers. Canvas too is cotton or linen; rag papers and
linens are subject to eventual rot, just like any natural substance but
how we prepare our substrate can determine if a future conservator will
be able to save an aging work.

I once attended a lecture by a Liquitex rep. He went very deeply into
the science of pigments. He was also a conservator. He said that there
are many ancient works out there that the canvas itself is rotting away
but the ground is not. He said that often times conservation is a
process of careful removal of rotting substrate while transferring to a
new substrate of the same or better materials.

He also went into the beauty of acrylic gesso. One is that the
molecular bond of acrylics is the tightest/strongest of all art
mediums. Conservation work on paintings that used an acrylic gesso can
simply be peeled away from rotting substrate and mounted to a new
substrate with wet gesso! This is the reasons I work a lot with acrylic
paints in most of my prints; although I still play with a variety of
mediums, traditional and experimental or use them for classwork. I've
found that quality acrylic paints, straight from the tube or tub are
very similar in consistency to block printing inks. I do have to use a
drying retarder and I keep a misting bottle full of water at hand to
periodically mist the block, brayer and pallet. Don't waste time with
the new Golden Open Acrylics; I experimented with some samples a local
business owner asked me to test for her. They are fine for painting but
while working a monoprint my first brush strokes dried before I could
pull the print. Although they did clean up easily with water and a
toothbrush, even the parts that had dried on the Plexiglass plate. Of
course water based media doesn't adhere at all to an acrylic base so its
useless as a ground for hanga.

I would love to use hanga technique with acrylics but am reluctant to
risk my good brushes. Perhaps I'll cut some shoe brushes in half and
experiment with them until I get it down. Although the last bast of
shoe brushes I purchased (for care of my shoes) cost nearly as much as
the less expensive brushes from the mall...

Oh I am planning on finishing the hanga tarot cards I'm creating for my
master's project with a printed layer of clear acrylic gesso. I'm doing
this so that the cards may be handled, though they wont be appropriate
for shuffling and divination they will still be held and studied; as
prints should be!
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Message 7
From: ArtSpotiB #
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 01:29:18 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36842] Time
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Time ... it's all relative, as Alice in Wonderland might remark.

"It is neither wealth nor splendor, but tranquility and
occupation, which give happiness."
--Thomas Jefferson
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Message 8
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 02:26:57 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36843] workshop outline
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I need a volunteer to read my rough workshop outline and suggest anything I
may have forgotten in terms of steps or supplies or anything else.

Any takers? Only three little pages?

Thanks, please contact me off list if you want the "job" and I will send you
a .pdf.

TIA Maria


Maria Arango

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Message 9
From: Blog Manager
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 03:56:05 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36844] Baren Member blogs: Update Notification
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This is an automatic update message being sent to [Baren] by the forum blog software.

The following new entries were found on the listed printmaker's websites during the past 24 hours. (53 sites checked, five minutes before midnight Eastern time)


Site Name: A Printmakers Blog About Art and Printmaking

Author: Debra James Percival
Item: A Little Heaven on Earth

Author: Debra James Percival
Item: In the Beginning - One With Copper


[Baren] members: if you have a printmaking blog (or a website with a published ATOM feed), and wish it to be included in this daily checklist, please write to the Baren Blog Manager at:

For reference, sites/blogs currently being checked are:
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Message 10
From: Jan Telfer
Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2008 12:21:25 GMT
Subject: [Baren 36845] Re: Wanda's Exchange
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Dear Maria and fellow Bareners,

Thank you for the lovely set of prints on Journeys /Travel that was
dedicated to Wanda. Mine arrived today and was pleased to be able to
sit and view it in comfort..... I am off to Japan next Wednesday night
18th Sept and looking forward to meeting David and other printmakers in
Japan this trip ... not to mention my nephew's wedding on the 27th !!

I still haven't packed !! But the print of the suitcase reminded me
that the pile of clothes and goodies on the spare bed won't fit into my
selected suitcase!!! The joys of travelling in the 21st Century with
restricted luggage weights and liquid bottles, etc!!

Fun fun fun. ..... will give you all an update on my return.

Cheers, and thank you again Maria.