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Message 1
From: "Shelley Hagan"
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 15:52:06 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37868] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V46 #4669 (Jan 10, 2009)
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Beautiful prints, Barbara. I've printed text twice and remember it being a
real 'learning experience' as well. Is the color in the background printed
from a solid plate?

After several days in the 70s and 80s the weather seems to remember that it
is supposed to be winter here. It's windy and cold - colder anyway. I bought
some thick clear plastic sheeting from the hardware store and will work on
weather proofing my little studio space. Thanks to all of you for your tips
and recommendations for sealing and heating the studio. I think I'm on the
right track!

Shelley

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Message 2
From: Linda Beeman
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:19:49 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37869] cabin fever
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I guess we are used to weird weather here in Michigan. That's why I have 4 wheel drive ~ 'cause we never know what is going to happen. There are places in Michgan where we measure the snow on the telephone poles. I don't go there. My parents moved there. I don't visit until spring. I am carving away and my husband is using the chips for fire starters in his workshop woodstove. I have hot cocoa and am making a pot of soup and a loaf of bread. Life is good.
Linda

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Message 3
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:23:38 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37870] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V46 #4669 (Jan 10, 2009)
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Again, not woodblock.

Shelly,
The plates are intaglio solarplates, wiped with oil based etching ink modified with setswell. The color is Akua Intaglio modified with a lot of transparent base and rolled over the plate on top of the oil. One time through the press. The text was printed from a relief solarplate using grey ink, also Akua Intaglio on the print after it was dry. I was surprised it would print over the oil, but it worked very well. It was a lot easier to use Akua Intaglio than oil but still, there were problems getting the plates just right. I now know how but what a chore it was trying to get it right with deadlines looming.
My best
Barbara

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Message 4
From: carol Montgomery
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 16:47:15 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37871] Re: New Baren Digest (HTML) V46 #4669 (Jan 10, 2009)
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Hi, Barbara - Beautiful images; would you consider them viscosity prints?Carol Montgomery, Montana

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Message 5
From: Rosposfe # aol.com
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:32:46 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37872] changing grip/two tohs?
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Well, I went back to the archives since I've never been really happy with the
control I've had with the hangi toh, holding it in my tight little grip,
thumb up and wrist supinated (palm up) and the blade tip angled in towards the
center(putting the bevel of the blade towards the line). This would cut along the
left side of a vertical line.
After reading the debate re: bevel side, etc.; and looking at the grip in
this photo http://barenforum.org/temporary/carving_outside.jpg , I decided to
give it a try:
Still in a fist grip but with the wrist pronated so the palm faces down
and the blade is pointed out, to the right of midline and supported by the left
hand from under. This cuts along the right side of a vertical line. Sounds
awkward, initially awkward, and meandering cuts all over both sides of the
straight lines I wanted to cut at first but after a bit, I got used to it and by
golly;
It does indeed ofter better control (I'm Right handed). Although I'm
still not sure where to be looking to keep the line in sight. Under the blade
from the left or over my hand leaning over the top?
Question:
Does anyone have both a left and right handed toh so instead of rotating
the board all over the place you could just switch tohs/grips and keep the
board stationary? Would that be an improvement?
-andrew stone

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Message 6
From: Peter Kocak
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:35:09 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37873] Re: changing grip/two tohs?
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I have seen it , very nice

Peter Kocak
www.pulib.sk/kocak
www.flickr.com/photos/pietrocelli
www.flickr.com/photos/marukiboshi
www.youtube.com/videos/pietrocelli123

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Message 7
From: Dave Bull
Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2009 23:56:30 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37874] Re: changing grip/two tohs?
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> http://barenforum.org/temporary/carving_outside.jpg

> ... in a fist grip but with the wrist pronated so the palm faces
> down and the blade is pointed out, to the right of midline and
> supported by the left hand from under.� This cuts along the
> right side of a vertical line.

> I'm still not sure where to be looking to keep the line in sight.

You lean over the top. Absolutely the most accurate and stable way to
carve, once you get used to it.

> Does anyone have both a left and right handed toh so instead
> of rotating the board all over the place you could just switch
> tohs/grips and keep the board stationary?

Modern carvers rotate the board. In the old days, that was not
considered cool - just wastes way too much time - so they flipped their
hand over, cutting with the knife facing to the 'inside'. That puts the
bevel against the line, which would mess things up, so when cutting on
the inside, they (we) usually cut the 'relief' cut first. (That's the
cut that will release the unwanted 'v' of wood). By cutting that
_first_, when the knife then makes the main cut, with the bevel against
the line - normally a no-no - it's not a problem because the wood is
now free to move, and there is no pressure placed against the line
itself.

Nice to see you experimenting with this. It's difficult at first, but
very rewarding if you can get it ...

Dave

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Message 8
From: ArtSpotiB # aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 02:36:27 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37875] rotating board when carving
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Just a little comment here, perhaps in error....

I am descended from several generations of artists... My mentor Mother taught
me to rotate the board in order to avoid what is now named "carpal tunnel"
syndrome. There's something good about avoiding that.... tho she wasn't teaching
me Japanese style carving, just what is often called " good studio
habits".

We've all seen the previous discussion regarding carving towards one's self
... and also towards the other hand.... The oops factor, tho avoided by many,
might not be worth the experiment! This seems to be much the same... tradition
versus modern/contemporary methods of a different technique.

Of course, everyone is welcome to their own adventures.... and traditions.
Me? I know that I can be distracted, have less muscle control than many and am
not always the sharpest tool in the box... so I'll just take the safer way,
thanks.

ArtSpot Out
Benny Alba in studio



"It is neither wealth nor splendor, but tranquility and
occupation, which give happiness."
--Thomas Jefferson

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Message 9
From: Dave Bull
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:00:04 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37876] Re: rotating board when carving
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> My mentor Mother taught me to rotate the board in
> order to avoid what is now named "carpal tunnel"
> syndrome.

This seems counterproductive. The method we described - carving without
rotating the block - means that the wrist and hand are constantly
changing position, with the force being applied by different muscles as
you go along.

If you rotate the block, this means that you end up carving always with
your hand and knife in the same position, as you put the block into
place under your hand. _That_, if anything, would start to cause
problems.

For what it's worth, such 'syndromes' as you mention are completely
unknown among traditional printers/carvers here. We don't use 'force'
(speaking ideally) ... we let the tools do the work as much as
possible.

As for 'cutting towards yourself', we've beaten that one to death on
this forum before, and I don't want to get into it again. The cutting
method illustrated in the photo linked earlier is _completely_ safe.

Dave

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Message 10
From: "Maria Arango"
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 03:07:43 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37877] Re: changing grip/two tohs?
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> > Does anyone have both a left and right handed toh so instead
> > of rotating the board all over the place you could just switch
> > tohs/grips and keep the board stationary?

Two solutions, both work well for me:
One, a lesson from Jim Mundie, make the initial cut with a straight edge
razor blade, which makes a perfect "guide cut" for the tip of the toh,
upcoming next. I also use magnifying glasses for this and any detail work,
the grocery store kind, not prescription and as Dave recommends, I lean way
over, nose over knife.

Two, for the advanced adventurers, teach your left hand how to carve and use
a left handed toh as you suggested. This will save your wrists and hands and
it is a huge time/board-flipping saver. Makes new brain cell connections
too, which will keep you younger (no, really). While you're at it, teach
your left arm to print and watch yourself double the "production" time.

I must try that "relief cut first" technique. I just printed the first three
blocks on my moku-hanga print and my registration was pretty good, about as
near perfect as I've ever been. I used the Baren Mall's hanshita paper and
the razor blade, left hand toh tricks combined.

Maria

O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O
������ Maria Arango
� http://1000woodcuts.com
http://artfestivalguide.info
�O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O=O

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Message 11
From: ArtSpotiB # aol.com
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:30:26 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37878] Re: rotating board when carving
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Hmm. It has been my impression, Dave, that one can acquire carpal tunnel by
using the hand in positions that are wrist intensive. Nothing about force. Use
of force is due to poorly sharpened or dull tools, an error that results in
cutting errors and injuries ranging from the kitchen to chopping wood.... and in
studio too, of course.

Rotating the block doesn't mean repetitive positioning of the hand. One just
rotates it (very easy) for superior angle of accessibility. It definitely does
not cause harm for carver nor wood. It is merely positioning the block
differently than that of Japanese tradition. Glad to hear that it just never occurs
there. I need to learn more on this one!

Best.

ArtSpot Out
Benny in California





Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength. -Eric Hoffer, philosopher
and author (1902-1983)

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Message 12
From: Dave Bull
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 07:43:45 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37879] Re: rotating board when carving
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> Rotating the block ... Glad to hear that it just never
> occurs there. I need to learn more on this one!

If I implied that people here never rotate the block, I was careless.
Modern carvers - myself among them - don't have the supreme skill that
the 'old guys' had. Top carvers in the old days felt it a matter of
pride that they would never have to move the block, no matter how
complex the image.

There is nobody left alive who can work that way, and you will
frequently see carvers here turn the block as necessary. But they (we)
don't turn it for every twist and curve of the image, nor for simply
doing the opposite side of a line.

Dave

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Message 13
From: eli griggs
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:16:27 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37880] Re: rotating board when carving
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I have to ask, how is making a relief cut with a toh
or razor any different than using a 'liner' gouge also
know as a 'U' gouge or "#11 pattern"?

When I get ready to carve on the block, I first run a
small #11 gouge closely along the outside of the lines
where waste is to be removed and use this as my
starting point for clearing out. Because of the 'U'
shape, the gouge can be run in any direction of the
wood-grain, with the occasional exception of tough
swirling patterns or knot holes.

Using the small gouge allows me to establish a buffer
between any clearing cuts that, if cutting away from
the line, give me a nice clean entrance into the wood
and if cutting toward a line, assists as a barrier
from runaway wasting cuts skipping into or breaking
out important line wood. After the wasting time is
over, the toh makes its first cuts and benefits from
the relieved pressure that a thick boundary of waste
wood would present.

I had thought whether or no you use a toh or gouge,
the process is basically the same and rotating the
block on the level or near level working surfaces most
of us use allows for the fastest cutting. Correct me
please if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall photographs
of moku hanga carvers working at boards, in carving
shops, like sharply angled drafting tables, with the
blocks basically pinned and wedged to the worktable in
such a way as to make 'spinning' the work very
involved, hence the need to be able to pick up another
tool or adept the one in hand for a fast, smooth
progression of carving. Davids' small work table or
bench appears to my limited knowledge to be quite
unlike these carving shop work areas and much
friendlier to spinning, even if a bench-hook is used.

Now, what have I got right and more importantly, what
have I misunderstood and why does it matter?

Cheers

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Message 14
From: Dave Bull
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 08:27:24 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37881] Re: rotating board when carving
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> After the wasting time is
> over, the toh makes its first cuts and benefits from
> the relieved pressure that a thick boundary of waste
> wood would present.

Sounds like a great idea - anything that will relieve that pressure
will make it easier to cut.

> Correct me
> please if I'm wrong, but I seem to recall photographs
> of moku hanga carvers working at boards, in carving
> shops, like sharply angled drafting tables, with the
> blocks basically pinned and wedged to the worktable in
> such a way as to make 'spinning' the work very
> involved,

The block is certainly never 'pinned' to the bench, which is slightly
angled down towards the carver. Here's (the late) Ito-san at his
(completely standard) bench:
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/hyaku-nin-issho/1995/summer/ito_2.jpg

When using a hammer to clear waste, a bench dog (or two) is slipped
into holes on the bench top, stopping the block from flying around
under the force of the hammer.

> Davids' small work table or
> bench appears to my limited knowledge to be quite
> unlike these carving shop work areas

Mine is the same, just more poorly and weakly made!
http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~xs3d-bull/hyaku-nin-issho/2001/winter/page01.jpg

Dave

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Message 15
From: Barbara Mason
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2009 12:53:16 GMT
Subject: [Baren 37882] Re: rotating board when carving
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Dave,
Is that a heater we see under the table, that nice orange glow? Looks like your toes are warm, at least. Hard to imagine an entire country without central heating, especially when it gets so cold in Japan. When Richard Steiner was here he was hunting hot water bottles to take home to Japan to help with warmth in the winter. Carving is not physical enough to keep you warm, well, maybe it is for you as you are an aggressive carver. I just turn up the heat. Hope you will eventually have some type of heat in the studio so you are toasty all winter.

One thing we have not mentioned for carving is that nifty little helmet with the lenses that make the work larger to see. I have used a light with a magnifying glass, on a swing arm, but think the little helmet thing I got from McClains is the best thing since sliced bread. No electricity is needed and it has three different magnifying lenses. I think wood working stores have them as well and maybe even home depot. I am not the best carver by far, but at least with this helmet I can see what I am doing. I look funny though. What we do for our art. I carve flat, I just cannot get the hang of having the work tilted. Maybe I need to try that again as it looks so comfortable for you and obviously you are a fantastic wood carver. I think I had it tilted up too high so will try lower angle. I still have some blocks to carve for the next exchange. Best get busy.
my best to all
Barbara

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